No more collecting on public lands

[Oroblanco]

Greetings,
Found this tonight, was curious as to when this "regulation" came into effect, quote:

Is collecting artifacts such as arrowheads, pottery or flakes allowed on federally managed public lands?

Collecting arrowheads, pottery or flakes is prohibited on public lands. Title 18 United States Code Section 641 prohibits theft of anything belonging to the United States. The removal of arrowheads, pottery or flakes from public lands constitutes theft of government property.
(From a NM BLM site, made the text red as that is what it made me see! )

So I guess it is far, far better to just have those old stone points, flakes, tools etc just slowly be eroded away, dissolved into the soils and lost forever? What kind of logic is that?

I had researched this not too long ago and found that it was legal to collect any type of stone artifact, but not to include pottery, organics etc from public lands; so have the laws changed in the last few months? If so, why? Who is making these regulations? Is it perhaps time to start a letter-writing campaign? (Living in a western state with nearly 90% of the land owned by government really limits the areas one can go hunting!) My wife and I own a hundred acres which has turned up several interesting finds and includes a good sized tool-making area and two pit houses, but ye gads if this law covers all the federal lands here in AZ then we are going to be stuck looking ONLY here!

Oroblanco

 

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[hollowpointred]

the archies want it all for themselves. as an american citizen those points are as much yours as they are anyone elses. its a bunch of political bullshit.

 

[newnan man]

Alot of it has to do with the unethical collectors who dig up sites to sell artifacts for profits. And it is true the pro arches really think they are the only ones who should find and keep stuff. I bet they all have pretty nice "personal" collections.

 

[bean man]

I couldn't agree more! Roy, I really do wish we could change that law because it protects nothing. I have two federal impoundment lakes near me here in Iowa that are full of stuff but only the people willing to break the law find it. The law is impossible to enforce,
so not only are the artifacts still not protected, misinformation is spread with them.
your friend, Geno

 

[deepsix47]

It's a real shame about all of the new regulations. They will be at best extremely difficult to get changed. I agree that the laws are at the least difficult to enforce. That doesn't seem to be a problem though as it gives the different agencies that much more reason to request higher budget increases in order to go after the dangerous point hunters (who are probably into other illegal activities also).

I was told one time by a "Special Agent" of the National Park Service that the profile on artifact thieves show that they are also "often" involved in poaching, drug cultivation, and drug trafficking. This was done at a civic meeting at which the "agent" was the guest speaker. It was all I could do to keep from laughing in this idiots face.

Anyway, to all of you point hunters/poachers/pot growers/drug dealers out there, just remember, Big Brother and his minions are out to get you. I guess my question is this. Why does the National Park Service have its own Swat Team/Teams?? Are Smokey the Bear and his little woodland buddies really that radical....lol.
Deepsix

 

[Oroblanco]

Hey you know how dangerous those squirrels are! SWAT teams are what I would expect from govt anymore.

I am just glad I found out before I made a big mistake. The last I knew, stone points and tools were okay, just pottery, human remains, organics etc were not fair game. I will be writing some angry letters though soon. I hope you all will be too.

You mentioned about archies having nice personal collections - well a few years ago I learned about how true that is too - some "looter" turned up with a very rare type of ancient Greek coin, and a magazine interviewed an expert archie about it, he said that it was a crime that fellow had "looted" a coin as the only ones in existence were in his private bank safety deposit box, and he had dozens of them stored there!
Oroblanco

 

[bean man]

I guess my first question should be, how much is the fine?
bm

 

[deepsix47]

Hey you know how dangerous those squirrels are! SWAT teams are what I would expect from govt anymore.

I am just glad I found out before I made a big mistake. The last I knew, stone points and tools were okay, just pottery, human remains, organics etc were not fair game. I will be writing some angry letters though soon. I hope you all will be too.

You mentioned about archies having nice personal collections - well a few years ago I learned about how true that is too - some "looter" turned up with a very rare type of ancient Greek coin, and a magazine interviewed an expert archie about it, he said that it was a crime that fellow had "looted" a coin as the only ones in existence were in his private bank safety deposit box, and he had dozens of them stored there!
Oroblanco

Ya know Oro, you're absolutely right. I completely forgot about the squirrels. You have to watch those little rebel rouser's every second. If they ever team up with the rabbits and chipmunks we're all in real trouble
Deepsix

 

[deepsix47]

I guess my first question should be, how much is the fine?
bm

Very big, they like to make examples but that's not all. They can just watch you put it into your truck and take it home. Then they can get the warrent, break into your home, and confiscate everything, including the truck you transported your illgotten booty in. Of course, you will be given an option to flip on all of your friends who own points and gather them in the field. If you do turn rat they agree to make it easier in court on you. You have to remember, these people that are out there trying to bust the person collecting a few points find it much safer then going after drug dealers and gang bangers. They are completely without a sense of honor and....Ok, I think I'll stop right there. Sorry about the tirade but I know people in several cases that have been busted and/or harassed by these glorified tree wardens. I don't have much use for them.
Deepsix

 

[papa]

Mean Critters around here.

 

[deepsix47]

Mean Critters around here.

LMAO!!!! Homeland Security at the very basic level.
Deepsix

 

[gollum]

I guess it's time to break these out again:

Yes, we have some bada$$ squirrels here in America

But don't forget just how vicious the raccoons can be!

But our Special Operations Forces Flying Squirrels easily dispatch those Nazi Chipmunks

Best,

Mike

 

[norcalrockhunter]

You might want to read this code

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/16/usc_sec_16_00000470--ff000-.html


TITLE 16 > CHAPTER 1B > § 470ff Prev | Next

§ 470ff. Civil penalties



(a) Assessment by Federal land manager
(1) Any person who violates any prohibition contained in an applicable regulation or permit issued under this chapter may be assessed a civil penalty by the Federal land manager concerned. No penalty may be assessed under this subsection unless such person is given notice and opportunity for a hearing with respect to such violation. Each violation shall be a separate offense. Any such civil penalty may be remitted or mitigated by the Federal land manager concerned.
(2) The amount of such penalty shall be determined under regulations promulgated pursuant to this chapter, taking into account, in addition to other factors—
(A) the archaeological or commercial value of the archaeological resource involved, and
(B) the cost of restoration and repair of the resource and the archaeological site involved.
Such regulations shall provide that, in the case of a second or subsequent violation by any person, the amount of such civil penalty may be double the amount which would have been assessed if such violation were the first violation by such person. The amount of any penalty assessed under this subsection for any violation shall not exceed an amount equal to double the cost of restoration and repair of resources and archaeological sites damaged and double the fair market value of resources destroyed or not recovered.
(3) No penalty shall be assessed under this section for the removal of arrowheads located on the surface of the ground.
(b) Judicial review of assessed penalties; collection of unpaid assessments
(1) Any person aggrieved by an order assessing a civil penalty under subsection (a) of this section may file a petition for judicial review of such order with the United States District Court for the District of Columbia or for any other district in which such a person resides or transacts business. Such a petition may only be filed within the 30-day period beginning on the date the order making such assessment was issued. The court shall hear such action on the record made before the Federal land manager and shall sustain his action if it is supported by substantial evidence on the record considered as a whole.
(2) If any person fails to pay an assessment of a civil penalty—
(A) after the order making the assessment has become a final order and such person has not filed a petition for judicial review of the order in accordance with paragraph (1), or
(B) after a court in an action brought under paragraph (1) has entered a final judgment upholding the assessment of a civil penalty,
the Federal land managers may request the Attorney General to institute a civil action in a district court of the United States for any district in which such person is found, resides, or transacts business to collect the penalty and such court shall have jurisdiction to hear and decide any such action. In such action, the validity and amount of such penalty shall not be subject to review.
(c) Hearings
Hearings held during proceedings for the assessment of civil penalties authorized by subsection (a) of this section shall be conducted in accordance with section 554 of title 5. The Federal land manager may issue subpenas for the attendance and testimony of witnesses and the production of relevant papers, books, and documents, and administer oaths. Witnesses summoned shall be paid the same fees and mileage that are paid to witnesses in the courts of the United States. In case of contumacy or refusal to obey a subpena served upon any person pursuant to this paragraph, the district court of the United States for any district in which such person is found or resides or transacts business, upon application by the United States and after notice to such person, shall have jurisdiction to issue an order requiring such person to appear and give testimony before the Federal land manager or to appear and produce documents before the Federal land manager, or both, and any failure to obey such order of the court may be punished by such court as a contempt ­thereof.

 

[norcalrockhunter]

and here another view of it

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=browse_usc&docid=Cite:+16USC470ff

 

[ghost surf]

I saw something just recentley this yaer,on the news about another law doing with archeology,That was during the news or some show, I was watching.I how-ever was not ablle to video it.You have to be pretty careful as to where you go and always ask.Private property is a biggy now.All land is owned by someone.

 

[Oroblanco]

All land is owned by someone

Sorry but no, not all land is privately owned by someone - here in AZ the figures are about 13 percent of the land is privately owned, about 87 percent of the land is PUBLIC. Most western states have half or more of the lands owned by the government, which is public lands meant for the use of all of us.
Oroblanco

 

[norcalrockhunter]

we have a bumper sticker that we had made up that states
RETURN PUBLIC LANDS TO PUBLIC HANDS
It goes over pretty well out here with the BLM

 

[papa]

we have a bumper sticker that we had made up that states
RETURN PUBLIC LANDS TO PUBLIC HANDS
It goes over pretty well out here with the BLM

Know all about BLM guys,when I lived in Oregon,doing some lumber work,they ask for my autograph several times

 

[norcalrockhunter]

we have a bumper sticker that we had made up that states
RETURN PUBLIC LANDS TO PUBLIC HANDS
It goes over pretty well out here with the BLM

Know all about BLM guys,when I lived in Oregon,doing some lumber work,they ask for my autograph several times

Dam you are famous then!!!!!!

A couple of years ago I read about a Fed sting on Federal land I think there was 10 to 15 bust and all of them were digging or screening, The had BLM groupies filming them in the act, They got in big trouble for digging, To me that is a big big no no I only surface hunt or walk the local creeks, I know you can find some good stuff digging but to me if its buried there is a reason why, I'll just wait until the ground pushes it up

 

[ghost surf]

I am with you on that one man.....I think we pay our taxes and a lot by the way!so if we see something on top of the ground and I would pick it up too...I can say I payed for it already 3 billion times!

I just had to say that......Nauty me!

Psss! I just love those pictures above!! They are narely dude!