No laws governing MD... but reading this...

I may be wrong but I believe that anything below mean high tide in Florida requires a treasure hunting permit, god only knows what that cost, and any finds are the property of the state. This would include many casual MDers of which I have seen more than one of in knee deep water.

On the other hand enforcement is non existent and the law is geared more so toward the professional type treasure hunters so I think we are alright in this regard. I really don't believe they would go out and round up hobby type metal detectors on the beach for fear of looking like Barny Fiffe.
 

Scary, isn't it.

Typical legal gibberish. Ambiguous terminology that can only lead to a lengthly court battle if persued. Comes down to who has the deepest pockets. A sad sign of our times.

Ray S
 

Imagine that!...the archaeologist took the arrow head from the kid... On yesterdays finds did you guys read Ocean7 fantastic find, $3 gold coin, awesome!!!!
http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,98483.0.html
What would you do...if someone decides to pull the same crap the archaeologist did to that kid on the $3 gold coin?
I cannot think about my devastation.
All about money and power heh!

islaverde
 

I wouldn't believe everything you read on-line. I used to be an Archie and if there was indeed a case where the guy took the arrowhead away from the kid, either the whole story wasn't told or the Archie was a giant jerk in general. I read the whole article and it sounded to me like the guy was trying to make a case for his doing wholescale excavation at his metal detecting sites, for which he was receiving a lot of grief from different authorities. Digging isolated metal artifacts or picking up an arrowhead off the ground is one thing. Many Archaeologists got their start as kids, by picking up an arrowhead out of a plowed fied. But, starting a full-scale dig where you've found a few things is destroying the context of a site. At least if you're going to do it, learn the proper way to record the site and your finds.
 

Hola Cane wrap: I agree in general, it is similar to some Detectorist's / Treasure hunters that do not use common sense or conform to normal moral or social behavior giving a bad name to all.

However, the hand writing is on the wall. As more Archaeologists are graduated they will be seeking jobs in a presently limited field. So the natural tendency is to eliminate what they have been taught to regard as an unwanted competetor, the untitled / untrained citizen, the detectorist or Treasure hunter. The very ones that they should be working hand in hand with and teaching them just what is needed for the mutual benefit of both.

Unfortunately they may be bent upon a suicidal road, since if they push for too strict enforcement laws in order to create more work for themselves, they will be stifling the independent Treasure hunter or Detectorist. The main one that has in the past been credited with most major Archaeological site discoveries and work for them..

Financing for independent efforts will be gradually be cut off, including the need for any Archaeologists being on / in a project since the projects will then become very limited in number due to the excessive costs for a full fledged expedition

I doubt that a single successful major sea or land research / exploration has been financed by any Gov't, state or Federal. So it basically all goes under the title of hypocrisy, just another way to generate capital at no expense or effort to themselves. Past and present actions show that they actually do not care about saving the past.

Don Jose de La Mancha
 

Ok, hold on here, you're painting all of the Archaelogists with the same brush and just like an Archaelogical project, this is a multi-level problem. Because most of the Archaeology being done in this country is salvage Archaeology, the average Archie is a low-paid semi-skilled worker that needs a job to pay the bills and initially might have been hired through some quirk of luck in knowing somebody running a dig. He/she might stay with it because they like what they're doing, but for the most part are a warm body that gets on the job training. Think they care about the future of antiquities? Maybe, but a handful of the guys I used to work with fit in this category and were just as likely to swinging a coil or digging a bottle dump on the weekends. The next level are the undergrad/grad students who are interested in possibly pursuing a career in Archaeology. A lot of times they are made crew-chief on a dig and are overworked and again, underpaid. Believe it or not, these guys are the easiest to reason with and to see your point of view. The real threat to the MD'ers comes at the next level. The higher paid Graduate Students and Professional Archaeologists who are out to make their mark in the world. They are the ones to convince (and the hardest at that) that we're not all just a bunch of pot hunters and can actually have a meaningful role in what they're doing. As you pointed out though, its too easy for the few bad apples to get everybody labeled in a negative light. And don't kid yourself, its not all about prehistoric Archaeology anymore. More and more grants are being given to Universities to do historic work. As long as there is still some attempt at communication between the MD'ers and the Archaelogists, all is not lost. However, its not really them you have to worry about, its the politicians. Does the MD'ing community have a Lobby? If not, you all need to form one and use it to monitor pending legislation that might impact us any more negatively than has been done. I could go on and on about this, but I'll save it for another day.

P.S. Just reread what you wrote, "if they push for too strict enforcement laws in order to create more work for themselves, they will be stifling the independent Treasure hunter or Detectorist. The main one that has in the past been credited with most major Archaeological site discoveries and work for them..

Financing for independent efforts will be gradually be cut off, including the need for any Archaeologists being on / in a project since the projects will then become very limited in number due to the excessive costs for a full fledged expedition".

How familiar are you with the type of Archaeology being done in the U.S. today? Most of it is Salvage Work, initiated because something culturally significant is being threatened by construction that is using Federal Funding. That's the law and that money won't go away. Only something like 20-25% of the projects are being done by academia and that money will never dry up as long as there is some interest in uncovering the past by philanthropist types, as well as a need for the recognition they receive for funding such projects.

Ok, a question occurs to me. Who has had their MD'ing interrupted because of something Archaeologists were doing? Has anyone come across something significant enough to report it and then been prosecuted because they reported it? Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending the Archaeologists, just pointing out that they are not all the bad guys, just like all MDing enthusiasts are not pot hunters. Again, if we want to preserve our right to search for coins or "treasure" (fill in your definition here) we need to be better aware of what the laws are and fight to protect our rights, as well self police as much as possible to keep the bad apples from ruining it for all of us.
 

Islaverde, great link!

Canewrap, you say: "Ok, a question occurs to me. Who has had their MD'ing interrupted because of something Archaeologists were doing?". In an indirect way, I do believe they had "interrupted" our detecting. I can not help but think that their influence ("protect our heritage" "cultural resources", etc...) has had a play on some state's laws about detecting. I mean, think of it, there can only be two reasons why anyone would take offence at detectors: 1) you're hurting the grass/vegetation, leave marks, etc..., or 2) you're "stealing" history, for your own personal benefit. Of those two reasons why some public property is off-limits, #2 is totally an archie mindset. So I would say, yes, archies have in an indirect way "interuppted" metal detecting in a lot of places.

Getting back to the link, the over-zealous archie stories reminded me of this true incident: A deer hunter was on federal land, at Ft. Hunter Liggett (near King City, CA) which has large swaths of the army base set aside for hunting. While walking through a dry-wash, the hunter looked down and found an indian mortor rock thing. He thought "this will look cool back home in my garden". He took it back to his campsite, and set it on the picnic table. The next morning, he and his buddies were getting up, and a ranger was making the rounds in the campground. The ranger lady spotted the indian mortor rock, and gave the guys the 3rd degree! An archie was called in who threw the book at them. All their gear was confiscated, and they were sent home. The rock was put in a public works building, to be stored as "evidence". Multiple court appearances were gone through, each time, the rock was brought out of storage for exhibit to the court. The men were forced to lead authorities back into the hills, to show them the exact spot where the rock had been picked up at, so that the rock could be "re-interred" back to its natural setting, after indians did their dances and such. Months went by, the cases were settled for fines, and the men eventually got their gear back.

The person telling me this story was an employee at the public works building, where the rock had been stored during the whole hoopala years earlier. I asked him "what ever became of the rock?". He said "well, no one ever came to get it after the trial was over, so we just use it as a door-stop now". Yup! No one making a fuss really even cared! That was years ago, and it was never re-interred or anything :o
 

You know, I'm really not surprised that the rock was forgotten about. Its that kind of contradiction that led me to leave Archaeology back in the 80's. History is taught in the classrooms across this great Nation, many people visit historic sites and museums every year, but demonstrate to me where we're applying what we've learned. Sad fact is, at the highest levels in this country greed and power brokering are overruling wisdom and its starting to become "an everybody for himself" free-for-all, so it doesn't surprise me that everybody is out to protect their own turf anymore. So, unless we can find a way to promote a spirit of cooperation and understanding, many of our existing rights are going to be legislated out of existence and if you don't think what I've said applies to Metal Detecting, read it again.
 

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