New York Legislation

[Crispin]

Source: Psychiatric Times, March 2013
Authors: Arthur Caplan, PhD and Joseph Pyle, MA

"Under the New York legislation, mental health professionals are required to report to local mental health officials when there is a reason to believe a patient is likely to engage in conduct that will cause serious harm to himself or to others. This information will then be cross-checked against a new gun registration database. If the patient possessess a gun, his license will be suspended and law enforcement will be authorized to remove the person's firearm."

This post is for my friends on TNet and my friends only. If you do not consider yourself my friend then I would prefer if you not respond. I don't want to take anymore Crispin bashing.

We do not have these laws in Florida. I am curious as to what some of my pro-gun friends think about the new law.

Sincerely,
Crispin

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

Upgraded Night Vision Monocular Digital Infrared Monocular Telescope for 100% Darkness with 8X Zoom - Grab it through Amazon!

[Terry Soloman]

I am a veteran, living in New York. The Veterans Hospital Administration here in New York has already sent a letter to the Governor, informing him they will NOT be complying with this law. Every combat veteran diagnosed with "PTSD" could be targeted under this law. Me, you, all of us that have served our Country could lose our right to own a firearm because some 35-year old non-veteran psychologist "thinks" we "might" be a danger to ourselves or others. Socialism is WINNING people.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Totally against it. My rights are not subject to interpretation by a politician.

I am totally against any gun registration or list of gun owners to cross reference a supposedly perceived possible threat based one 1 doctors opinion....

The new illegal gun laws in New York will never pass a test before the Supreme Court either... Any law that violates the Constitution is an illegal law the moment it becomes law..

 

[ivan salis]

FEDERAL hippa medical law * says doctors can not talk ABOUT what folks tell them in "private" -- if what you tell a doctor in private isn't really "private" no one will tell their doictors the truth anymore out of fear. --(note federal laws trumps state laws ) -- please note that anyone seeing any mental health professional for ANY REASON * COULD be said to have some "issues" and some mental medical doctor types are well known for their anti gun veiws. --- -- folks that are told by the court to seek "anger management" because they got n a fight * could be sent to a "doctor" and be said to have "issues" --get mad just once and get in a fight and "poof" you could get "labeled" as a "problem person" for life.

any vet that was ever in combat could easily get labeled as a "possible PTSD " sufferer by a VA shrink as they go thru their --leaving the military phyisical / mental exam.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Terry,

American soldiers were okay to carry automatic weapons, mortars, machine guns and grenade launchers to carry out America's foreign policy when it suited them, but not okay to have a pistol for self protection now.

Do you know every Iraqi household is allowed to have a fully automatic firearm in their home even with US forces, but yet obama adminstration and many Democrats do not want an American family to have even a pistol for protection...

 

[Crispin]

I am a veteran, living in New York. The Veterans Hospital Administration here in New York has already sent a letter to the Governor, informing him they will NOT be complying with this law. Every combat veteran diagnosed with "PTSD" could be targeted under this law. Me, you, all of us that have served our Country could lose our right to own a firearm because some 35-year old non-veteran psychologist "thinks" we "might" be a danger to ourselves or others. Socialism is WINNING people.

Terry: I think the key word here is "likely." Having a diagnosis of PTSD does not, by default, make it likely. However, I see your point and what you are getting at. Just wanted to clarify that the having PTSD does not make somebody "likely" to do harm to oneself or others.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Terry: I think the key word here is "likely." Having a diagnosis of PTSD does not, by default, make it likely. However, I see your point and what you are getting at. Just wanted to clarify that the having PTSD does not make somebody "likely" to do harm to oneself or others.

I agree, unfortunately when you have a government administration that does not want it's citizens to have arms at all, getting that info they will use it as they see fit and we know how that will turn out..

 

[Crispin]

I agree, unfortunately when you have a government administration that does not want it's citizens to have arms at all, getting that info they will use it as they see fit and we know how that will turn out..

TH: Can we bump my theoretical situation thread over to the 2nd amendment forum? I want to see if anybody decides to change their mind. Especially, after reading some of their own words. Thanks.

Crisp

 

[Crispin]

Their reply: "A law that demands more disclosure about troubled patients assumes a mental health system sufficient to ensure that there is a mental health professional available to all those who need one. A law that demands more outpatient treatment presumes that such is available, affordable, continuous, and accountable. A law that demands that mental health professionals warn colleagues about a patient presumes that the patient has not already harmed himself or herself or others because of a lack of early access to services. The New York law is a start; other states should emulate it. New York, other states, and the federal government must realize that decades of allowing mental health care to go begging leaves a very weak chance of detecting or treating those who need help."

In my words: For every dollar you spend supporting the NRA and 2nd amendment you should spend a dollar supporting mental health services. Mental health services are on the front lines trying to protect people from the "whackos" and "nutjobs" putting bullets in innocent kids. We can't do it without funding or help. Stop calling us "shrinks!" That is insulting. Stop bashing mental health. Here is a solution that might work...

 

[XLTer]

Crispin , I've read many of your informative posts . You have my utmost respect as a man and Dr. But , TH makes a very valid point about Govt. intentions . Especially for our honored Vets . I for one would not be willing to risk my God given rights to any one mans opinion . I'm afraid this will keep many people that may have treatable issues afraid to seek help through tough times . JMHO

 

[Crispin]

Crispin , I've read many of your informative posts . You have my utmost respect as a man and Dr. But , TH makes a very valid point about Govt. intentions . Especially for our honored Vets . I for one would not be willing to risk my God given rights to any one mans opinion . I'm afraid this will keep many people that may have treatable issues afraid to seek help through tough times . JMHO

I agree with you 100%. Here is another quote, "The NY SAFE Act would transcend New York's State's mental hygiene statute granting an "authority to warn" into a legal duty if the clinician believes that firearms may be involved. The problem is that there is not much evidence that mental health workers are particular adept at predicting violence."

XLTer: My friend, here is what I am driving at with this thread...

 

[dieselram94]

Crispin, I would have to agree with TH and XLTer. No one wants to see an unstable person have a gun, however once this door is opened it will be opened so wide the hinges will be ripped off. I do agree the mental health of this nation as a whole has been steadily declining. I don't know what the answer is to address this issue is but I am very distrusting of the govt (especially this administration) as you know. Opening the door to limiting the second amendment is never a good idea...

 

[dieselram94]

I agree with you 100%. Here is another quote, "The NY SAFE Act would transcend New York's State's mental hygiene statute granting an "authority to warn" into a legal duty if the clinician believes that firearms may be involved. The problem is that there is not much evidence that mental health workers are particular adept at predicting violence."

XLTer: My friend, here is what I am driving at with this thread...

The idea of the govt prosecuting people for "future crimes" or trying to limit any citizens rights based on a possible "future crime" is super scary...

 

[Crispin]

Crispin, I would have to agree with TH and XLTer. No one wants to see an unstable person have a gun, however once this door is opened it will be opened so wide the hinges will be ripped off. I do agree the mental health of this nation as a whole has been steadily declining. I don't know what the answer is to address this issue is but I am very distrusting of the govt (especially this administration) as you know. Opening the door to limiting the second amendment is never a good idea...

I couldn't agree with the three of you more. We are all on the same team here. I'm showing you that we must join forces together. The answer to limit gun violence is for the NRA and the Mental Health Alliance to join together. The NRA has the money...mental health is being stripped of money by Obama care. How can we treat potentially dangerous and mentally ill patients without funds. So far, nobody has posted anything on this thread that I disagree with.

Not all of my threads are meant to debate...some are designed to further illicit thought and conversation, this is one. Join with me...my friends.

 

[Dave44]

I guess the problem is a lot larger than this.

How would you know if you are seeing a Crispin who is for Rabid gun control, Or if you were seeing one that had some weird phobia of inanimate objects would there be a mandatory panel of right thinking Crispins to weigh the diagnosis?

It looks to me like most Crispins have Many different ideas on treatments and severity of cases when there is not the chance of taking away all of someones rights.

Sorry, Humans are involved in this scenario so it fails. As much as I respect Our Mr Crispin, I would not want him to be my Psychologist in such an important decision. And there is no way he would tell his patients his stance on these issues beforehand.

By the way, Machines would fail for sheer totalitarianism. One size does not fit all.

Sorry Crisp. I could not type Psychologist that many times!

Respectfully,
Dave

 

[bill from lachine]

Dave,

I'll leave it to Crispin to elaborate on this situation.....but some time ago he already stated that him and his colleagues didn't want to make that judgement call.....unless the patient make an imminent threat that they were going to kill someone.....

Regards + HH

Bill

 

[Crispin]

I guess the problem is a lot larger than this.

How would you know if you are seeing a Crispin who is for Rabid gun control, Or if you were seeing one that had some weird phobia of inanimate objects would there be a mandatory panel of right thinking Crispins to weigh the diagnosis?

It looks to me like most Crispins have Many different ideas on treatments and severity of cases when there is not the chance of taking away all of someones rights.

Sorry, Humans are involved in this scenario so it fails. As much as I respect Our Mr Crispin, I would not want him to be my Psychologist in such an important decision. And there is no way he would tell his patients his stance on these issues beforehand.

By the way, Machines would fail for sheer totalitarianism. One size does not fit all.

Sorry Crisp. I could not type Psychologist that many times!

Respectfully,
Dave

Dave,

I agree with everything you just said. Everybody is agreeing with each other. I don't want that power. I want help...I need funding and the stigmatization of psychiatry to change so people can get help. If the NRA truly wants to help prevent deaths in schools...help me help them. We need funding and understanding...not more weapons.

Crispin,

Ps. I know you didn't mean anything by it but calling me a psychologist is an insult...you need to learn the difference between a psychologist and a psychiatrist.

 

[Dave44]

"Ps. I know you didn't mean anything by it but calling me a psychologist is an insult...you need to learn the difference between a psychologist and a psychiatrist."

Right. Sorry, You may not know it but in my everyday life I don't deal with psychiatrists. Isn't a psychologist a Oprah guy that tries to sound all Texas hominess? Can't remember his name, probably cause I feel he is a complete quack job,,

I would like an easier nickname for your profession though please. You want to tell me what is easier for me to type? lol

 

[Dave44]

Yesw Bill an Crispin. I do not know where that line is drawn, People say " I could just kill him" or "I wish he were dead" and do not mean it. So how would you distinguish the difference? Only in an office?

I bet the Crispin profession gets a lot of people that want to off themselves, why would they even come in if they did not trust the doctor? I know, I saw this already. But it is true.
How about this, I had a Friend that was VERY depressed and none of us recognized the symptoms. It is not the same as depressed in anyway, If any of us ever saw that again we would know what to do. But how would you explain the difference to people that have never experienced it?

I would think it would be next to impossible to teach a layman to know when someone is in imminent danger or just highly upset. Because most of us will never see it in our lifetime. An over reaction to a small depression will get you booted from someones life right now because they no longer trust you!

Let me know when you guys figure out the details, Just make sure it is not overreaching and ensnaring the innocent.

Sincerely, Dave

 

[releventchair]

Dave,

I agree with everything you just said. Everybody is agreeing with each other. I don't want that power. I want help...I need funding and the stigmatization of psychiatry to change so people can get help. If the NRA truly wants to help prevent deaths in schools...help me help them. We need funding and understanding...not more weapons.

Crispin,


Ps. I know you didn't mean anything by it but calling me a psychologist is an insult...you need to learn the difference between a psychologist and a psychiatrist.

Heres a thought. A common cause. hmm. solicit funds from pro and antis. Bradys money,bloombergs billions and his minions,plus the other antis with the N.R.A. all trying to out do each other to improve mental health. Then after we can talk of enforcing laws and working on society accepting and glorifying violence. The money saved that bloomberg and fienstien and others spend on bodyguards could be put to better use then too when they become safe from us unstable commoners who don,t need such.
Why is it they are not the first to lay down arms?.