New research on C.S.S. Hunley sinking

[Jolly Mon]

Discovery may rewrite Hunley history, final moments - WCIV-TV | ABC News 4 - Charleston News, Sports, Weather


It took some serious "brass" to crew on that thing.

Especially when it had already sunk twice with the loss of all hands.

 

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[Darren in NC]

Seems strange that the torpedo would still be attached to the spar when the Hunley was found offshore a ways from the Housatonic. If she was found next to the ship, I could see where it was still attached. Otherwise, the torpedo wouldn't have sunk the Housatonic if the Hunley was further away (which she was).

 

[aquanut]

Darren, The torpedo wasn't found attached to the spar. I think the idea was that the torpedo would inbed itself into the targets wood hull, then the sub would back off releasing the torpedo from the spar. A cable from the spar would then feed out and trigger the explosive when it terminated. Hopefully, the sub would be a safe distance from the explosion at that point. However, because of the damage to the end of the spar, it appears the explosion either occurred on impact or immediately upon the sub backing off.

 

[Darren in NC]

My exact point, John. If it had exploded on impact or shortly after backing away, then her wreckage would have been found next to the Housatonic. But she wasn't. She was recovered about 100 yards away. A better explanation would be that debris/shrapnel from the explosion hit the spar and the window in the conning tower (glass was found inside, not broken outward from the men inside). I don't mind theories as long as they fit the facts already known.

 

[aquanut]

Darren,
There could be a number of reasons the boat wound up a hundred yards away. So, my theory can still work.

 

[hobbit]

Here is a copy and paste from the "comments" section of the article. I am just posting this in case it gets buried by other comments:
1 hour ago
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I discovered the Hunley only a few hundred yards offshore of the Housatonic. Since she attacked on an outgoing tide, the tide could have carried her the additional distance, while she was still sufficiently buoyant to float or bounce along the bottom. Regardless, it is still a surprising find. But what really amazes me is that State divers found the spar back in May of 2000. That means it took them another 13 years for to look at it carefully enough to understand its significance. To me that reeks of the same incompetence that was shown in the State's failure to visit the wreck site for 25 years after I first reported discovering it in 1970. Signed: Dr. E. Lee Spence, underwater archaeologist President, Sea Research Society (14,367 members)

 

[Darren in NC]

So, my theory can still work.

Sorry, John. I didn't realize we were talking about your theory. I was referring to the article.

 

[aquanut]

Darren, No apology needed. I'm not even saying I'm right.

 

[Southern_Digger]

Here is a copy and paste from the "comments" section of the article. I am just posting this in case it gets buried by other comments:
1 hour ago
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I discovered the Hunley only a few hundred yards offshore of the Housatonic. Since she attacked on an outgoing tide, the tide could have carried her the additional distance, while she was still sufficiently buoyant to float or bounce along the bottom. Regardless, it is still a surprising find. But what really amazes me is that State divers found the spar back in May of 2000. That means it took them another 13 years for to look at it carefully enough to understand its significance. To me that reeks of the same incompetence that was shown in the State's failure to visit the wreck site for 25 years after I first reported discovering it in 1970. Signed: Dr. E. Lee Spence, underwater archaeologist President, Sea Research Society (14,367 members)

It makes you ask the age-old question... Where is the democracy?

I have had a similar misadventure...

Such is the game of politics gone bad. I went through the same experience on land sites. I found the site of Fort Jupiter and the Loxahatchee Battlefield, was directed by local historical socities to conduct digs; all was up and up with permission from private land owners and from the county. I found artifacts, donated them to museums and was on my third attempt to get a grant to wrap up the field work when leadership changed hands at the societies and a once-trusted friend double-crossed me, brought in the press and gave all credit to someone who showed up late in the project, to assist as a volunteer. Even though I had already placed artifacts in the museum from the site, press still gave the volunteer credit for discovering the site. After that, that Vol. was placed in a power position, working with the societies and was able to hire back, through grants, the same once-trusted friend to do the main survey-the same I was seeking grants to complete. Oh yes! and although everyone could come forth and volunteer on the battlefield survey, I was denied because they did not want friction between me and the person who was gifted my years of credibility. Not only that, my work was condemned in a book because I would not give up my site information to them so they could publish my work in their name. It is like spending thousands to do years of research and apply for a patent to donate for the people. And, just when you get ready to finalize and go public. someone steals it from you with the help of the State Government, by denying available grant funds to a legit project. It became obvious it was totally political. After my work was covered up, the State suddenly had monies to fund the work, now that they had someone with strong political connections on board. But lo and behold, they don't trust a true Floridian whose family were south Florida Pioneers and who has deep roots in the community. I notice in today's State, a transient moving into Florida has much better chances of getting their hands on a grant than a Floridian. Why? The State of Florida does not trust the byproducts of their own education system. Remember, getting a grant to fund a project beneficial to a local community and the public does not mean the monies goes into anyone's pocket. It just means I did not have to lay out anymore personal money to reach closure. Question: Did you bring back a piece of artifact to prove you found the Hunley? I did on my site work and the public was able to view the artifacts while the project was still ongoing. After I set down and did the math, my volunteer project at Ft. Jupiter cost me over $30k out-of-pocket in a fourteen year period.

Here is why my project work failed:

President of LH Historical Society who co-initiated the project with the blessing of the private landowners passed away.

President of the DuBois Hist. Society who co-initiated the project with blessings of the private landowner passed away.

Secretary and Past-President of LH Society--who owned much of the land both passed away.

Four consecutive leaders of the local historical society during ongoing project years did nothing to get involved with the continuing project, but were happy to receive the artifact donations.

The main landowner and past L Hist. Society president became dismayed at the society for not continuing support of the project and began holding back donations that I preserved and kept stored on her property. This large group of artifacts were to go to the society at her families request,or to the family upon her death. My interest was the opportunity to preserve, photograph and identify them for my archeology paper. However, upon her death and before I was notified, a neighbor of this Jupiter pioneer, gave all the artifacts to someone who knocked on the door one day to ask permission to search the property. That person still retains those artifacts to this day.

Br. County Historian who supported the SE Florida area projects brought me on board as an Archeologist (Volunteer) with the approval of the entire board of county commissioners. At first, I refused the offer but they came back, stating they were a State Agency too and could get me grants for my Ft. Jupiter project providing I assist them with my land archeology experience. My mentor was the first archeologist on the commission and they asked me to be the next, with further enticement of, eventually, making it a paid position. I placed my regular career goals of architectural-engineering on hold--continued working in the field, but not furthering my education in the field when the opportunity arose. Regarding the paid state-county position, this never happened. Although I was provided a grant writer at first, the type of grant I needed was not available at that time. However, the basic grant they did apply for, but did not get, was greatly unrelated to archeology. Another attempt was to follow the next year but once the county historian passed away, nothing else was done to assist in getting the grants and when I place it on the table at meetings, the Commission director would immediately table the issue.

The director of the B. County Historical Commission also promised to get me the funding through grants focusing on SE Florida History if I assited them on one, then another, and then another project. He never delivered and when I refused to assist on the last project without going public first, I did just that. I called in the press to ascertain I get credibility for a small discovery. I, after 13 years service on the Historical Commission, 11 years as a non-paid county archeologist volunteer was booted off the historical commission and accused of not being an archeologist because the project was stopped. Not on my account but, because the county and the city were at odds as to who had jurisdiction over the project. At that time, I had already scheduled digs with a team of two archeology groups; plus another 30 volunteers; and had already had the county write and cover insurance for all those working on the site during the digs. The same director of the commission also was a developer who I found, had a big conflict of interest. He had a mound site on one of his developments and another archeology group was slowing their progress as they conducted an ongoing survey. He wanted to shut them down and asked me to quickly dig it out so they could move on with their development. I refused to let him boot off an ongoing study dig and do the dirty deed and I warned the other group, therefore, I was at odds with him and for this. I believe is why they never pursued the grant for my project work after the historian passed away, and may be why I was never put on the payroll as a county employee representing the State of Florida. A new historian came on board with a positive resume, but did very little during the first few years and did not support my work whatsoever. Regarding the director of the Commission, after I was removed, he passed away a few years later.

The irony of my years of service on the Historical Commission had a funny ending. One day while conductiing an exhibit, a man came forward and introduced himself as me. He showed me his drivers license and we have the same name. But we are not related. His ancestor origins are Irish and mine are Welch. This man has dabbled in Dade County History and is a historical artist; whereas, I aside of working in Engineering, have dabbled in graphics, both by hand and later, on the computer--some published in the Florida Antropology Magazine. He has an inaccurate but popular painting at the Cape Florida lighthouse museum depicting the attack by the Seminole people on the lighthouse--a true event. I, specialize and write about Seminole War history. His work was known in Dade County and mine in Broward and Palm Beach Counties; and later, all over Florida. He told an interesting story on how people are always confusing him for me and visa versa. I think back to this day, when I first joined an arch. society in the early 70's and was mentored, then later offered a position on the Historical Commission, did they confuse me for the other man... life can be hilarious.