New Glass "Points" a revisit

Airborne80

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Mar 23, 2005
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Northern Virginia
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New Glass "Points" a revisit

Some of you may recall a while back when I posted some glass triangle shaped items that I thought were bird or fish points. Though most of you were convinced that the items were nothing more than trash, (an opinion that I understand and fully respect) I decided to revisit the issue. As a matter of background for those who have not seen my past post, the area that I hunt in is a known fishing village site for prehistoric and historic Indians. It also saw Revolutionary and Civil War activity, so I find a mix of flakes, points, pipe fragments and other items. A year ago, I noticed that there were quite a few small glass triangular shaped pieces of glass of varying color. They were all the same shape and mostly the same size. I found it odd that there was not other glass or trash in the river or along the bank…. Just these items. I started collecting them and have quite a few. The ones below are items that I collected within the last week. I wonder if any of you have ever heard of this kind of item. My guess is that the later Indians obtained glass by way of trash, trade or theft from settlers and used them to make fishing points. I also find shell points the exact same shape and size. Some of the glass is very thin and most is light blue or green. I have not seen such glass before. Any and all thoughts will be appreciated. Thanks for looking.
 

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Re: New Glass "Points" a revisit

It is an interesting theory you present, I guess it is in all probable as well! Let's see how the others weigh in.
 

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Re: New Glass "Points" a revisit

May have been some type of decorative wear? If you find any with holes in them or the little tin things they used to fasten them to clothing that might be? Can't see they would work very good as points. Maybe they started to make points and decided they wouldn't work? Guessing. Monty
 

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Re: New Glass "Points" a revisit

The glass arrowheads that I have seen were knapped on the edges just like the flint ones to make them sharp. Yours do not look worked on the edges and not enough to tie on securely. Pictured is an arrowhead made from beer bottle glass by a modern knapper. I would say trash but I am no expert on arrowheads. arrowhead beer bottle.gif
 

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Re: New Glass "Points" a revisit

I would say that your shards are not points as they would have knapped them.When I teach people to knap we use glass as it is really easy to use.In all actuality obsidian which Indians used widely is glass natural all be it.I totally disagree with Plehblah that there is no documentation of glass being used.They have been found in quite a few notable sites.I have personally found points made from black (1850) glass,and have several friends that have found them as well.Why wouldnt they use glass if they had access which they did???
 

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Re: New Glass "Points" a revisit

Monty said:
May have been some type of decorative wear? If you find any with holes in them or the little tin things they used to fasten them to clothing that might be? Can't see they would work very good as points. Maybe they started to make points and decided they wouldn't work? Guessing. Monty
I'm guessing also The pieces could have been tools or etc but they don't have a shank that would hold them in an arrow when tied. Tony
 

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Re: New Glass "Points" a revisit

i know a collector of indian artifacts that has one display of 50 plus roughed in pieces of rock that were found in one spot where a tree overturned. he claims that they would keep an inventory of materials to make into whatever they were running low on. none of the rocks were finished but all were worked on ...ie not in there natural state.....basically pieces that broke off in a shape that COULD be made into something and the rest im guessing was disscarded. being these shards of glass are all triangle shaped they may have been the pieces that broke of in a shape that COULD be made into points and saved as inventory. hope this helps dave
 

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Re: New Glass "Points" a revisit

Glass certainly doesn't uniformly break into pieces shaped like points. Based on your discovery of glass ONLY shaped like points, combined with poolguy's theory on surplus material, I think you may have something.
 

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Re: New Glass "Points" a revisit

Interesting thread, and after reading through the comments I remembered reading something about Ishi using broken glass for making points. I'm not sure if this has any bearing on the glass pieces that started this thread, nor am I claiming that they prove or dis-prove anyone's statements. I also realize that Ishi was a modern Indian, surviving into the 20th Century. So, for what its worth:

http://images.google.com/imgres?img...124&prev=/images?q=%22ishi%22&um=1&hl=en&sa=N

The link above doesn't mention the use of glass as a material, but does have some interesting things to say about Ishi's tool making:

"The quality of the arrowpoints Ishi made shows he felt good about himself--he was a good craftsman," said Shackley.

"Arrowpoints made in the historic Yahi sites excavated by the Department of Anthropology in the 1950s and housed at the museum are quite different from Ishi's products," said Shackley. "But tools and arrowpoints made at historic Nomlaki or Wintu sites also housed at the museum bear striking resemblance to those made by Ishi."


This next link, however, does:

http://images.google.com/imgres?img...116&prev=/images?q=%22ishi%22&um=1&hl=en&sa=N

“He also taught us a lot about flintknapping. Kroeber was amazed with his ability to turn obsidian or even broken bottle glass into beautiful and functional arrowheads.”

And, finally, here's a cool pic of Ishi's tools. Note the glass shards. Not sure if they were tools, or his raw materials.

MP
 

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Re: New Glass "Points" a revisit

And one more:

http://images.google.com/imgres?img...7&prev=/images?q=ishi+points&gbv=2&hl=en&sa=G

Scroll down a bit and you'll see a caption underneath the following picture that says "The clear glass point in the center of this picture was made by Ishi. The other points were surface collected several years ago on Late Stone Age sites in California. Primitive cultures used glass when it was available to make projectile points, scrapers or knives. In Australia, glass in the form of old bottles and electric insulators were used to make Kimberly spear points."

Like Plehbah said, California is strange (I've lived here long enough to know for sure), but it does appear that there is some evidence that glass was used. Hope this helps.

MP
 

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Re: New Glass "Points" a revisit

Maybe I misunderstood. Were all the glass pieces you found shaped this way? ...or did you just pick out the few that had an arrowhead shape?
 

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Re: New Glass "Points" a revisit

SWR said:
The glass in the opening post appear to be post-1917
Good thinking. :thumbsup: Could you elaborate? Are you referring to the clear white glass, the brown glass, or both?
 

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Re: New Glass "Points" a revisit

Plebah,

I'm going to have to defer to your experience here. I have no knowledge of indian artifacts (in fact, I've never found a point or any other native american artifact...at least that I could recognize). I hope that you, and others more expert in this subject, will find my contribution to this thread useful.

Those glass points were beautiful, though, weren't they?

MP
 

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Re: New Glass "Points" a revisit

Way to keep your eyes peeled! However, I agree with Plehbah... I've studied native culture and artifacts on and off for 24 years (doesn't necessarily mean I'm right), and although I'm sure a Native picked up a piece of glass and used it on occasion, I don't think you'll have much chance of finding many native hunting artifacts made of glass. If you did, it surely wouldn't look like that. There is no hafting area, and if there were, it would be ground so as not to cut the hafting and/or shaft. The edges show no edgework, no flaking, or anything to indicate they were used. Another thing is, it is very difficult to break pane glass into a shape. It can be knapped into shape, but these aren't knapped. These were broken. Try to break a piece of glass, and control which way it breaks without a glass cutter. Also, as SWR mentioned, some of this glass looks to be fairly modern.

Just my take on it. I hope you find some good ones!
 

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Re: New Glass "Points" a revisit

may i suggest it is the nature of curved objects ( pottery or bottles) to break into this shape?
 

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