Need some bullet experts for a few IDs - Thanks

[ModernMiner]

Need some bullet experts for a few ID's - Thanks

Calling all bullet experts!!!
I dug these three pieces up today at a 1820 plantation house with some CW history.

The big one says "F" "A" "30" on the bottom. Any idea what it is & how old?

Any idea on the small lead one with two rings? Age?

Is the thin one an arrow tip, or part of a bullet?

Thanks for your help,
MM

 

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[Tavis]

Re: Need some bullet experts for a few ID's - Thanks

The one stamped FA 30 maybe a Federal Arms round, in 30 caliber. Looks as thought it was in the ground a while. The bullet with the rings is probably some sort of blackpowder round. The last bullet looks like a regular modern bullet, lead with a jacket of copper around it. Also looks like it has rifling on it still.

 

[Ken from Atlanta]

Re: Need some bullet experts for a few ID's - Thanks

F A = federal arms, looks to be a .32 or .38 Smith and Wesson, probably early 1900's? the long thin one is a rifle bullet, I'd guess .30 cal, it's a hunting round, with a soft point and pretty modern. the other one I have no idea.

hope that helps a bit....

Ken

 

[ModernMiner]

Re: Need some bullet experts for a few ID's - Thanks

The one stamped FA 30 maybe a Federal Arms round, in 30 caliber. Looks as thought it was in the ground a while. The bullet with the rings is probably some sort of blackpowder round. The last bullet looks like a regular modern bullet, lead with a jacket of copper around it. Also looks like it has rifling on it still.

Thanks Tavis.
Would the FA30 be old? Any idea of the age?
Thanks,
MM

 

[ivan salis]

Re: Need some bullet experts for a few ID's - Thanks

you have a misfire -- the modern type F A 30 --frankfort arsenal 1930 --- 45 cal bullet that misfired **** warning as a misfire it is a "live" round and can go off (not very likely but it could happen --- so handle it with care and pull the lead end and dump the powder inside --- the othether long bullet is a modern copper jacketed hunting round of about 30 cal (most likely its a 30 - 06 round due to the sharp type point --most 30 -30's have round nose ends being their "tube fed" ) --- the older type bullet is a possible32 cal civil war era pistol bullet .

 

[Tavis]

Re: Need some bullet experts for a few ID's - Thanks

The one stamped FA 30 maybe a Federal Arms round, in 30 caliber. Looks as thought it was in the ground a while. The bullet with the rings is probably some sort of blackpowder round. The last bullet looks like a regular modern bullet, lead with a jacket of copper around it. Also looks like it has rifling on it still.

Thanks Tavis.
Would the FA30 be old? Any idea of the age?
Thanks,
MM

To be honest, I have no idea how old it might be, but I don't think its a Federal Arms round, I believe its a Frankford Arsenal round, which was an ammunition plant from 1816-1877. It was in Philadelphia, and made ammo for government use from CW through WWII. Hope that helps, sorry I can't pinpoint how old it might be, but from the look of the casing, it looks to be pretty old. WWI era maybe?

 

[dnewbury2]

Re: Need some bullet experts for a few ID's - Thanks

The one marked FA 30 is a .45 auto round made at Frankfort Arsenal in 1930. The copper jacked one looks like a moderm .30 caliber bullet and the small lead one looks to be a .32 caliber bullet, probably post Civil War.

 

[ModernMiner]

Re: Need some bullet experts for a few ID's - Thanks

You guys are fantastic!!! That's why I love this site. Thanks so much for the ID's.

IVAN,
I'll handle that live bullet gently. Thanks for the warning.
-MM-

 

[RevJoel]

Re: Need some bullet experts for a few ID's - Thanks

The complete round is a .45 APC round made by the Frankford Arsenal in 1930. Although it has misfired, since it has been in the ground for more that a while it is not going to go off. What occassionally happens, usually when firing older surplus ammo, the shooter will experience a "hangfire". This is when the primer is hit, and there is a measurable delay in it fireing the powder charge. This delay can be as long as 10 seconds or more. That is why knowledgable shooters keep the muzzle pointed downrange for at least one minute after a hangfire.

Metallic cartridges are probably some of the safest manufactured products in the world. The majority are loaded with a smokeless powder that is extremely safe to handle. After all, The companies cannot afford the liability of producing unsafe products. There is really no need to call the OED to dispose of a found cartridge.

The pointy projectile looks like a soft point hunting bullet with the exposed lead core; probably between .270 and .30 cal. The two ringer looks like and old heeled .32 lead projectile from a rimfire cartridge.

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

Re: Need some bullet experts for a few ID's - Thanks

What's the diameter on the little lead "two-ringer". Looks liks the ubiquitous .22LR slug to me.

 

[Tavis]

Re: Need some bullet experts for a few ID's - Thanks

The complete round is a .45 APC round made by the Frankford Arsenal in 1930. Although it has misfired, since it has been in the ground for more that a while it is not going to go off. What occassionally happens, usually when firing older surplus ammo, the shooter will experience a "hangfire". This is when the primer is hit, and there is a measurable delay in it fireing the powder charge. This delay can be as long as 10 seconds or more. That is why knowledgable shooters keep the muzzle pointed downrange for at least one minute after a hangfire.

Metallic cartridges are probably some of the safest manufactured products in the world. The majority are loaded with a smokeless powder that is extremely safe to handle. After all, The companies cannot afford the liability of producing unsafe products. There is really no need to call the OED to dispose of a found cartridge.

The pointy projectile looks like a soft point hunting bullet with the exposed lead core; probably between .270 and .30 cal. The two ringer looks like and old heeled .32 lead projectile from a rimfire cartridge.

RevJoel is right, except its def. NOT a 45 ACP. I don't think theres any chance of it going off, as gunpowder (both smokeless and blackpowder) will degrade over time into harmless compounds.

 

[BuckleBoy]

Re: Need some bullet experts for a few ID's - Thanks

RevJoel is right, except its def. NOT a 45 ACP. I don't think theres any chance of it going off, as gunpowder (both smokeless and blackpowder) will degrade over time into harmless compounds.

Yes, especially in a bullet with a brass casing...

Now when you dig that CW shell that's another story all together! :P


-Buckles

 

[Monty]

Re: Need some bullet experts for a few ID's - Thanks

The little lead bullet looks like it has been pulled out of a case with a pair of pliars or something. You can see a pulling and twisting type scar on the nose. Just from looking I would guess it is about 32 cal. There were various .32 caliber lead bullets loaded mostly in small revolvers. Like .32 S&W, .32 Colt, .32 long Colt, etc. Usually the front groove is a crimping groove while the second is a grease groove designed to hold bullet lube so the lead projectile won't lead up the barrel. Without exact measurements and weight in grains it would be hard to pinpoint it exactly. The big fat loaded cartridge sooks kinda' short to me to be a .45 ACP. I'm thinking maybe it's a .455 Russian or something similar. A few U.S. made guns were chambered in that caliber at one time but it was never popular here. I'm going from old age memory, but it seems tht some were sent to the English and some to the Russians.And there was the .45 Auto Rim domestic caliber, or it could be a .45 ACP but just a lot of the case has erroded away. So I am not saying definately. Again, measurements would tell the tale. Pictures are hard to interpret on cartridges and loaded ammunition. Monty

 

[RevJoel]

Re: Need some bullet experts for a few ID's - Thanks

Case is eroded rather badly, but it is an ACP (Automatic Colt Pistol) design. If not the .45 then maybe the .38. Quick! Grab a micrometer!!!

 

[Monty]

Re: Need some bullet experts for a few ID's - Thanks

You asked for experts and I am no expert. I just have about 40 years experience shooting and reloading various cartridges. I looked into several of my old reloading handbook references and could find no other .45 caliber or .44 caliber rimless handgun cartridge other than the .45 ACP. Some of the others I mentioned are rimmed cases, so it just about has to be a .45 ACP, and I agree it's a 1930 Frankfort Arsenal cartridge case. There is a new shorter .45 caliber rimless case but nothing that old. Sorry to lead you astray, my bad! M nty

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

Re: Need some bullet experts for a few ID's - Thanks

Looks like a .45 ACP case that has lost the front 1/3 to corrosion. Also looks fired (not just the primer - the case is bulged as they do in the ramped barrel & loose chamber of the 1911).

Was the bullet found with the case?

As with Monty - I'm not an expert but have done a lot of shooting - and the .45 ACP is my favorite semi-auto pistol round.

 

[ModernMiner]

Re: Need some bullet experts for a few ID's - Thanks

Looks like a .45 ACP case that has lost the front 1/3 to corrosion. Also looks fired (not just the primer - the case is bulged as they do in the ramped barrel & loose chamber of the 1911).

Was the bullet found with the case?

As with Monty - I'm not an expert but have done a lot of shooting - and the .45 ACP is my favorite semi-auto pistol round.

Charlie,
You see it the way I found it, except for a few pieces of the case chipped off.

 

[RevJoel]

Re: Need some bullet experts for a few ID's - Thanks

"and the .45 ACP is my favorite semi-auto pistol round."

Mine too. According to McNaulton's Rules of Gunfighting...All things considered, A good big bullet trumps a good little bullet any day of the week!

 

[Tavis]

Re: Need some bullet experts for a few ID's - Thanks

I prefer a 40S&W to the .45, but as calibers go its not a bad round. I still don't think its a 45 ACP though, it looks way too small, it looks just a bit bigger than the rifle round, which is probably a 223. If so, the pistol round would be around the size of a .30 caliber. Also, I've never seen a 45 that wasn't marked as such.