Need ID help from any of you colonial coin experts

[Bill D. (VA)]

I found this coin a couple years ago at a very productive site that gave up around 15 pieces of spanish silver, several VA halfpennies and other colonial coppers, and a wide variety of other artifacts dating from the early 1700s to the early 1800s. Most of the stuff appeared to date around the Rev War era time frame. Anyway, I still haven't been able to ID this small copper coin. Its 17mm in diameter which is about the size of a dime. I've scoured my Krause coin books many times and have been unable to find anything close. There's only very little detail on what I believe is the front (looks like the roman numeral II), and the other side is worn slick. I thought it might be spanish but haven't been able to find one like it in the books. If anyone can recognize this from the little info provided I will be amazed. Thanks for looking ..... Bill

 

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[CRUSADER]

Are your sure there are no clues on the back, just a few faded lines would help me?

I think its a 17th Century Jetton (maybe early 18th).

Reasons;
Thin brass or copper-alloy type metal
Cheap off-centre strike
Whats left of the legend follows the usual pattern: S.II.D - would be something like [CARLO]S.II.D.G or [IACOB]VS.II.D.G etc.. (however, the possible 'G' looks kind of 'V' like )
Jettons come in all sizes & 17mm is acceptable.

Country of origin is impossible without more clues but Germany is most likely.

 

[Bill D. (VA)]

Hey Crusader

Thanks for the help. You may be going in the right direction. I'm posting a pic of the other side but, like I said, I doubt it will be of any help. If this is a jetton it would be the earliest find at this site, and would seem a little out of place. However, just because its older doesn't mean it couldn't have been lost at a much later date. Let me know if you have any other ideas based on the 2nd pic. I can also try to take some higher resolution photos of both sides and post those if you think that would help. Thanks again ..... Bill

 

[Mackaydon]

Yes, higher res. pic of the first pic might help. Thanks
Don....

 

[Bill D. (VA)]

Here's a couple higher resolution pics

Yes, higher res. pic of the first pic might help. Thanks
Don....

But not sure they help much ...........

 

[CRUSADER]

Part of my letter theory goes out the window, I now don't see an 'S' & not sure what it is, as its so poorly/double struck.

? II.OV

Not much to go on, but still think Jetton is most likely.

 

[Mackaydon]

Admittedly, when I first saw the coin I imagined the "L CU" could be part of continenta"L CU"rrency, but the CC coin is about the size of an IKE dollar so (sadly) dismissed that possibility.

 

[Bramblefind]

Maybe it needs to go into the Lime-Away

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,417629.0.html

 

[Bill D. (VA)]

Maybe it needs to go into the Lime-Away

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,417629.0.html

That's good to know about lime-away. I may try some blue ribbon coin cleaner first, and if that doesn't work maybe do a quick treatment with lime-away. But I may practice first on some wheats or other trash coins. Thanks for the input.

 

[CRUSADER]

Maybe it needs to go into the Lime-Away

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,417629.0.html

That's good to know about lime-away. I may try some blue ribbon coin cleaner first, and if that doesn't work maybe do a quick treatment with lime-away. But I may practice first on some wheats or other trash coins. Thanks for the input.

No amount of cleaning can put detail back on to a coin/token/counter. This is as clean as it can get, leave it.

 

[Don in SJ]

Maybe it needs to go into the Lime-Away

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,417629.0.html

That's good to know about lime-away. I may try some blue ribbon coin cleaner first, and if that doesn't work maybe do a quick treatment with lime-away. But I may practice first on some wheats or other trash coins. Thanks for the input.

No amount of cleaning can put detail back on to a coin/token/counter. This is as clean as it can get, leave it.

I would have to agree with Cru, when corroded like that, any additional cleaning most likely will not reveal any more detail. I suppose you tried looking at it while wet, on different angles, also as many different types of photographs you can think of, angled, different lighting, photograph wet, damp, sunlight, artificial, etc. There does seem enough there to get in the ballpark on identity, just have to find a comparison sample, hopefully you will get lucky and do so.

Don

 

[Bramblefind]

It is very hard for me to disagree at all with Crusader and Don b/c they have far more experience that me in these things. But to not know what something is would drive me bonkers! So if I had that item I would still try the Lime-Away - but that is my own personal choice. I find it so compelling how the two coins posted by members here that used that method went from apparently no or very little detail to identifiable.

But of course it is risky and if you don't want to accept it could wipe out all the little detail you do have - don't do it.

Anyway.... following what Crusader said a few posts back- I found this thin copper German jeton piece in some stuff I have - it is 17mm - I think it is a Krauwinckel of Nuremberg issue. It reminded me somewhat of what you have.

 

[CRUSADER]

It is very hard for me to disagree at all with Crusader and Don b/c they have far more experience that me in these things. But to not know what something is would drive me bonkers! So if I had that item I would still try the Lime-Away - but that is my own personal choice. I find it so compelling how the two coins posted by members here that used that method went from apparently no or very little detail to identifiable.

But of course it is risky and if you don't want to accept it could wipe out all the little detail you do have - don't do it.

Anyway.... following what Crusader said a few posts back- I found this thin copper German jeton piece in some stuff I have - it is 17mm - I think it is a Krauwinckel of Nuremberg issue. It reminded me somewhat of what you have.

That is the type of jetton I mean, although that issue is one of the most common & not the one pictured above. Its one of the less common type but might not be pictured on the web

 

[Swartzie]

Maybe it needs to go into the Lime-Away

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,417629.0.html

Lime away worked for me. About a half hour soak took all the corrosion off. See the post.
-Swartzie

 

[CRUSADER]

Maybe it needs to go into the Lime-Away

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,417629.0.html

Lime away worked for me. About a half hour soak took all the corrosion off. See the post.
-Swartzie

Have you tried it on a thin 17th C brass token/jetton/coin?

They are two completely different coins (& metal types), this does not need a clean, all thats on it is patina not corrosion. But go ahead & try whatever.

 

[Silver Searcher]

Maybe it needs to go into the Lime-Away

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,417629.0.html

Lime away worked for me. About a half hour soak took all the corrosion off. See the post.
-Swartzie

Have you tried it on a thin 17th C brass token/jetton/coin?

They are two completely different coins (& metal types), this does not need a clean, all thats on it is patina not corrosion. But go ahead & try whatever.

How about the Dremel Cru

I see XL DV

SS

 

[Don in SJ]

Maybe it needs to go into the Lime-Away

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,417629.0.html

Lime away worked for me. About a half hour soak took all the corrosion off. See the post.
-Swartzie

Swartzie, looking at your coin, it appears you had hard crud, not corrosion, most of the cleaning methods used would have resulted in the detail you ended up with, Bill's copper is corroded and only a little bit of crud left but not really hiding any detail. His coin is about as good as it can get.
Lime Away, most likely should not be used on a copper that has porousity, since it is an ACID. Sure, it will remove corrosion, but true corrosion on a coin if it is removed takes details with it. Also, then it is soaked into the inner part of the coin and since it is an acid, well, sure can lead to further destruction down the road. Anybody who uses it better put the coin in a distilled water soak (preferably a warm distilled water soak) for quite awhile to let the water neutralize the acids within the porous coin.
I would not recommend using it in my opinion on any coin, when I can get the same results with my cleaning methods which are more gentler.

Don

 

[Bramblefind]

That's very good info Don I was just hoping for any piece of new detail to possibly lead to an ID. And IMO if I had that coin unfortunately I would have to call it a lost cause as far as preservation goes.

I would just be hoping to somehow find a way for an ID in a hope of adding more to my knowledge of the site.

Do you think the side with no detail on it at all right now - the total green side - might not be hiding something under that? I don't think we need much to find a more firm ID.

 

[CRUSADER]

That's very good info Don I was just hoping for any piece of new detail to possibly lead to an ID. And IMO if I had that coin unfortunately I would have to call it a lost cause as far as preservation goes.

I would just be hoping to somehow find a way for an ID in a hope of adding more to my knowledge of the site.

Do you think the side with no detail on it at all right now - the total green side - might not be hiding something under that? I don't think we need much to find a more firm ID.

The only thing thats hidding detail is the wear

 

[Bramblefind]

The only thing thats hidding detail is the wear

Ok all logic is telling me you have to be right but I think this is something I have to try myself. Now I'm off to eBay to buy a lot of crusty old thin copper jetons

Oh and I still need to get my bottle of Lime-Away