Need Help with Bullet ID

[Mason Jarr]

These aren't from a Civil War site, but rather an Indian Wars site. But, I don't see a forum for Indian War so I'm hoping I can get some help here. The whole, damaged cartridge and the casing below it are .50-70 Government for the Springfield trapdoor rifle. Note the flattened nose of the bullet in the damaged round. The bullet on the bottom was found at the same location, but the tip is pointed. The diameter is .51 and the length is .93 (inches). It has a conical base with no internal markings. The rings are cut into the bullet and the bullet mold marks are visible from the tip to the base. I haven't weighed it, but can if that would help. The site I was detecting was active not too long after the Civil War so I'm wondering if the bottom bullet would have been used in a musket. Any help with the ID would be appreciated.

 

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[Davers]

These aren't from a Civil War site, but rather an Indian Wars site. But, I don't see a forum for Indian War so I'm hoping I can get some help here. The whole, damaged cartridge and the casing below it are .50-70 Government for the Springfield trapdoor rifle. Note the flattened nose of the bullet in the damaged round. The bullet on the bottom was found at the same location, but the tip is pointed. The diameter is .51 and the length is .93 (inches). It has a conical base with no internal markings. The rings are cut into the bullet and the bullet mold marks are visible from the tip to the base. I haven't weighed it, but can if that would help. The site I was detecting was active not too long after the Civil War so I'm wondering if the bottom bullet would have been used in a musket. Any help with the ID would be appreciated.

The bottom bullet def, look's like a CW Ear bullet , I could be from a surplus rife & ammo bought after the Civil war.

Or a recast bullet from a Period Mold or a Modern one , did it come out grey like that? or was it a water find ?
+
IMO .51 seems small for a # ringer ...could be a .54 cal of some sort .

Hope you figure it out as I would like to know as well .
Have a good one.

 

[Davers]

Yes.
A weight would help , + more pic's if possible.
Thanks.

 

[Mason Jarr]

Here are some other photos of the first bullet I found and the other three that I found at the same site. I only posted the single bullet earlier because it's the only one that's in near perfect condition. I also used a digital caliper this time (I used my Dad's old dial caliper the first time) and the diameter is closer to .54 cal. The dirt out here in the west is usually very dry and most of the bullets I've found are a pale grey color. Some are more towards a charcoal grey color. If you notice the bullet on the left (in the picture of the four bullets) looks like it was pushed in with a ramrod. That's why I'm wondering if these were used in a musket rather than a metallic cartridge rifle. Thanks for your input!

 

[fyrffytr1]

They look like rifled musket bullets to me. Like Davers said they could have been used in a surplus gun. The deformed bullet looks like it was pulled with a worm style puller.

 

[Davers]

After looking more here & in my smaller paperback ' A Handbook of Civil War Bullets & Cartridges ' by James & Dean Thomas ...& I'm no CW Bullet Expert by far .

I'm 99% sure the original bullet pictured & the others are indeed Muzzle Loader 3 ringer ( not # ringer LOL ) as I typed in my first post .

Also fyrffytr1 is correct in his opinion , 'IMO' 'that the one bullet has been pulled with a worm style puller ' . Is there still dirt in the small hole ? (no big deal just my OCD wondering ), + I wonder if yr other bullets were stepped on or damaged after they were dropped ; as they do not look fired IMO .

As for my OCD , I do not see an exact match in my book , but when measuring these bullets esp after 140-155 years there is a-lot of variables to consider.

Like most 54 cal's measure under .54 so the will fit into the muzzle , but IMHO .54 would work . Also there are MANY variants not pictured in my or other books .

I also wonder if yr able to hunt close ( in firing distance ) to were you found these 'Drop's & pulled Minnie's'? to see if you can find Fired examples . Of-course they could have been used for a short time period or while hunting & conserved ?

Anyway they are nice finds for your area & I wish they could talk , to tell just how they got there & when .

Good Day

 

[Mason Jarr]

Yes, they were most likely stepped on. I found them near where there was a very active fort site with both calvary and infantry units. You can tell from the photo of the base in the caliper that it's not perfectly round, so the true diameter is probably something other than what's on the screen. I won't be back in that area until maybe next year. It's a pretty far drive from where I live here. I asked a guy who has an active Youtube channel and he suggested it's the #410 bullet listed in the McKee and Mason guide. It was all a mystery to me. Most of the bullets I find are normally from .45-70 metallic cartridges. Thanks for the help in identifying these. They'll definitely have a special place in my shadow box.

 

[Papa Bear]

50-70 on top.

.58 Minie on bottom.

Judging from your location, you are at a site that saw activity from about 1863 to at least 1872.

Nice finds.

 

[Papa Bear]

The Indian Wars were being fought out west long before the Civil War ended, hence the .58. Wait until you find Gallaghers, Merrils, Smiths, Gomez & Mills Sharps, etc, out west. Thats when the fun starts.