Need help on ID of old copper Largie

[Elad]

The other side is toast. On the side in the picture it looks like a shield shape with possible crownish type thing on the top. I have not yet measured it with a micrometer, but I was hoping someone might recognize it.

Came up as 12-13 44 on the E-Trac.

Any ideas?

 

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[timekiller]

Re: Need help oh ID of old copper Largie

Early NJ copper! The shield looks narrow so I'm guessing the early ones.Size & weight will help.
Take Care,
Pete,

 

[Elad]

Yes I was thinking NJ Copper but I am still not convinced. I won't be able to measure it until next week unfortunately.Thanks for the reply.

 

[timekiller]

Yes I was thinking NJ Copper but I am still not convinced. I won't be able to measure it until next week unfortunately.Thanks for the reply.

Yea I just saw were you say you see a crown.Give me a sec.

 

[timekiller]

Yea I wanted to make sure.But I don't know of nothing copper with a sheild shaped like that, that has a crown over it.There are coins with crowns over the sheild but not a shield shaped like that.That I know of. And being your from Jersey yourself It's my best guess.
But maybe someone will come along and teach us both something.
Good Luck,
Take Care,
Pete,

 

[Elad]

Yea I wanted to make sure.But I don't know of nothing copper with a sheild shaped like that, that has a crown over it.There are coins with crowns over the sheild but not a shield shaped like that.That I know of. And being your from Jersey yourself It's my best guess.
But maybe someone will come along and teach us both something.
Good Luck,
Take Care,
Pete,

Thanks for taking the time to search around. I am still

 

[West Jersey Detecting]

I immediately knew what it was, and it is almost definitely a NJ copper. I doubt you will be able to tell anything more from the looks of it, but I think you can be fairly confident it is one.

 

[Elad]

I immediately knew what it was, and it is almost definitely a NJ copper. I doubt you will be able to tell anything more from the looks of it, but I think you can be fairly confident it is one.

Hmmm, what are you doing awake so late Neil?

NJ Copper? That would be sweet, and my first!

 

[timekiller]

Just wanted to correct myself now.
1st) Pic.
Imitation 'spade guinea' or 'spade half-guinea'

Late 19th or early 20th century

Found at Kingsgate Street, Winchester, Hampshire

Real spade guineas and half-guineas were struck in gold in the reign of George III between 1787 and 1800 and were so called because of the resemblance of the shield on the reverse to a spade. A great many imitations were struck in brass mostly during the 19th century in Birmingham for use as counters for games. They sometimes bear dates that do not fall within the period of George III (1760-1820), the date 1701, as on this example, being fairly frequent. The legend on the obverse reads GEORGIVS III DEI GRATIA (George III by the grace of God).



2nd) Pic.
Is a button that would have the shield & crown a may be miss read as a coin if had no shank.But the 13mm size would tip most off as strange.
Copper alloy 13mm dia. 19th century



The legend isn't clear in parts, but like the guinea and half-guinea counters of the later 19th century, it is different to that on the genuine coins. The button is likely to date to this period, rather than the Georgian period, when counters carried the same legend as the coins. Undoubtedly, the button would originally have been gilded
Take Care,
Pete,

 

[Elad]

Thanks Pete, that actually looks like it may be it. But, does brass come up the same as copper on the E-Trac?

 

[timekiller]

Thanks Pete, that actually looks like it may be it. But, does brass come up the same as copper on the E-Trac?

Now you got me. Don't have a E-Trac.

 

[timekiller]

I will say this, it appears now that it could be after looking at yours again.I think I see some signs of the symbols in the shield.

 

[timekiller]

Description
Gaming Counter, imitation 'spade', half guinea, George III (1760-1820), holed, brass, made by Charles Peverelle, Birmingham, England, Great Britain, after 1788.

Imitation 'spade' half guinea gaming counter, milled edge, with hole drilled at upper edge obscuring lettering on reverse. Image on obverse and reverse slightly off centre with upper parts of lettering off the edge.

OBVERSE: central effigy, bust of King George III wearing laurel wreath, facing right. Surrounding legend 'GEORGIVS III DEI GRATIA'.
REVERSE: central coat of arms surmounted by crown. The shield bears four panels containing schematic rendering of rampant lions, harp and fleur de lys. Surrounding legend 'CHARLES PEVE (illeg.hole) E.M.A.K.E.R.B.I.R.M 1788'.
Production notes
This coin-like gaming piece was made in imitation of gold guineas and half guineas of George III's 'spade' type issued between 1787 and 1799. They were normally made of brass and can also be distinguished by their inscriptions which were usually those used on the original coin, but altered during transcription and usually with incorrect dates. The type was revived in the 1860s, when they carried the names of the firms which produced them or BIRM for Birmingham, where most were manufactured.

This particular gaming piece imitates a half guinea coin originally dated to 1788
Acquisition credit line
Transferred from the Australian Museum, 1961
Marks
Legend struck on counter, on obverse 'GEORGIVS III DEI GRATIA' (Transl: 'by the grace of god'), reverse 'CHARLES PEVE (illeg.hole) E.M.A.K.E.R.B.I.R.M 1788'.
Registration number
N4482
Depth
0.8 mm
Diameter
19 mm


Maybe this info will help you more.
http://www.dhub.org/object/308936,Gambling

 

[CRUSADER]

OK gaming token crossed my mind but they are generally thin & brass. (still a possibility, these were popular in 1830s but often dated coping earlier spade coinage)

Most likely is a late 18th century token (circa 1790s) or condor tokens as you like to refer to them. Many varieties with shields but your at least need some letters to pin it down further.

 

[timekiller]

OK gaming token crossed my mind but they are generally thin & brass. (still a possibility, these were popular in 1830s but often dated coping earlier spade coinage)

Most likely is a late 18th century token (circa 1790s) or condor tokens as you like to refer to them. Many varieties with shields but your at least need letters to pin it down further.

I like this Idea as well. Cause your shield looks like them more to me.And would explain your machine reading it as a copper.
If i'm seeing it correctly this morning it looks like the shape of the Jersey coppers look.But with maybe three divided sections at least.
Here is a site that has a few of them that you can see.I don't right off hand see a match for yours.But is a path that needs futher examination.
I'd stick with Cru's lead first.
http://www.stoa.org/gallery/album135?page=1

 

[Elad]

Thanks so much for helping me. It looks alot like it may be one of those conder tokens after all.

 

[Suthers]

I think I may have the original. I dont really know alot about coins but i have been searching around the net and I think I have a 1788 half guinea, George III made by Charles Peverelle, Birmingham, England, Great britain

I know they arent great pictures but i'd be grateful for any information you guys could give me Thanks.

 

[Elad]

I have studied every little detail that it has left and I believe it to be the 1792 Rochedale halfpenny here.

It's hard to tell from the pictures but it matches up. The cross lines at the bottom of the shield are at a 45 degree angle, and I can also make out the plant inside them. Also, I can make out the bottom part of the animal standing on top of the shield.

 

[tr snyper]

At first glance it does seem to be a Jersey copper. But looking closer at it the top of the shield falls short and seems to have had a crown over it. It also looks like an alloy other then a true copper. Maybe even a re-strike from something else in the early 1800's. These guys here in Jersey were knocking off everything they could get their hands on to make a quick buck. Kind of like what they're doing today over here. Jersey has a long history of corruption. When I was younger I got duped into trading for a knock off Jersey copper. I threw it in the Barnegat Bay if anyone wants to go looking for it!!!

Never the less it's an exciting find what ever it is (was).