🔎 UNIDENTIFIED Need Help identifying!

Digger RJ

Digger RJ

Gold Member
Aug 24, 2017
20,356
34,673
SW Missouri/Oklahoma
🥇 Banner finds
1
🏆 Honorable Mentions:
2
Detector(s) used
Minelab CTX 3030; Minelab Equinox 800;
XP Deus 2
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting

Attachments

  • CBC7D9A8-847F-48B8-9BB9-8DA1E1EF7250.jpeg
    CBC7D9A8-847F-48B8-9BB9-8DA1E1EF7250.jpeg
    1.4 MB · Views: 155
  • 1A5B5263-E6AD-45F0-84F5-70A6B31332F5.jpeg
    1A5B5263-E6AD-45F0-84F5-70A6B31332F5.jpeg
    1.3 MB · Views: 105
Sort by date Sort by votes
I think it is a Russian 2 kopek depicting St. George the victorious. Not sure though.
 

Upvote 1
Interesting. Never seen one of those before. The imagery is loosely borrowed from the English Tudor ‘George’ noble gold coin. This one is Henry VIII (1526-1529):

Noble.jpg

I can’t read it all and, in some cases the letters are abbreviated Latin words which might be hard to interpret, but the reverse (with St George slaying the dragon) has a variation on the original legend for Henry’s coin. The letter that looks like a Greek ‘pi’ symbol is a mediaeval ‘A’ and the character that looks like a lower case ‘a’ is a mediaeval ‘C’.

So the reverse of Henry’s coin reads (in Latin): TALI : DICA : SIGnO : MES 'x FLVCTVARI : nEQVIT (Consecrated by such a sign the mind cannot waver). On yours there is at least the beginning of that as: TALI*DICA[TT] but it then goes off-piste with something like: SIS MES PLVCAT v ARI nE?T. Stumped on that.

The obverse for Henry’s coin (with ship, cross and Tudor rose) reads: hENRIC8 DI'x G'x R'+ AGL'+ Z + FRAnC'x DnS '+ hIBERnI (Henry the Eighth by the Grace of God King of England and France Lord of Ireland) but yours has been replaced by something entirely different that I can’t decipher.

It was common for prestigious English gold coins to inspire imitations in Europe with suitable adaptations… both for regular coinage and for jetons/tokens, and for centuries after the English originals were no longer in circulation. My feeling is that this a late 19th or early 20th Century brass continental token for use in card games and such rather than an earlier jeton in the sense of being used for accounting purposes.
 

Upvote 8
Red-coats coin is a lot better example than the Russian coins I found. Mine had the front but not the obverse matching yours. Interested to see the final outcome (I.D.)
 

Upvote 1
One other thing to note is that the 'inspired by' copying of English gold coin designs onto continental European coinage often resulted in the legends being 'blundered'. That is, the words may have no real meaning because letters were copied by engravers who had no understanding of what they were, or that they could be Latin abbreviations.

If this token was copied from or inspired by a continental coin that had itself been copied from or inspired by an English gold coin, there is further scope for nonsense legends.

The word on the obverse (the ship side) beginning with 'AA' may be a case in point. It's unlikely as a word or an abbreviated word:

AA.jpg


Or, as Don says, it could just be a fantasy item with borrowed imagery.
 

Upvote 7
Red-Coat said:
Interesting. Never seen one of those before. The imagery is loosely borrowed from the English Tudor ‘George’ noble gold coin. This one is Henry VIII (1526-1529):

View attachment 2068524

I can’t read it all and, in some cases the letters are abbreviated Latin words which might be hard to interpret, but the reverse (with St George slaying the dragon) has a variation on the original legend for Henry’s coin. The letter that looks like a Greek ‘pi’ symbol is a mediaeval ‘A’ and the character that looks like a lower case ‘a’ is a mediaeval ‘C’.

So the reverse of Henry’s coin reads (in Latin): TALI : DICA : SIGnO : MES 'x FLVCTVARI : nEQVIT (Consecrated by such a sign the mind cannot waver). On yours there is at least the beginning of that as: TALI*DICA[TT] but it then goes off-piste with something like: SIS MES PLVCAT v ARI nE?T. Stumped on that.

The obverse for Henry’s coin (with ship, cross and Tudor rose) reads: hENRIC8 DI'x G'x R'+ AGL'+ Z + FRAnC'x DnS '+ hIBERnI (Henry the Eighth by the Grace of God King of England and France Lord of Ireland) but yours has been replaced by something entirely different that I can’t decipher.

It was common for prestigious English gold coins to inspire imitations in Europe with suitable adaptations… both for regular coinage and for jetons/tokens, and for centuries after the English originals were no longer in circulation. My feeling is that this a late 19th or early 20th Century brass continental token for use in card games and such rather than an earlier jeton in the sense of being used for accounting purposes.
Click to expand...
Thanks Red-Coat!! Think You nailed it:)
 

Upvote 1
Digger RJ said:
Found this token and have no clue what it says, or what it is. I’d love to hear any ID or language decipher as to what it says. Thank You in advance!!! Happy Hunting!!!
Click to expand...
Thanks for All the help!!! You All are Awesome!!!
 

Upvote 4
I don't think we have a solution here, in the sense that we don't know where it came from, who produced it, when it was made or what it was for. All that can be said for sure is that it's loosely copied from an English Tudor gold 'George' noble, complete with at least part of its original legend. The rest is guesswork, albeit with some intuition.
 

Upvote 2
Red-Coat said:
I don't think we have a solution here, in the sense that we don't know where it came from, who produced it, when it was made or what it was for. All that can be said for sure is that it's loosely copied from an English Tudor gold 'George' noble, complete with at least part of its original legend. The rest is guesswork, albeit with some intuition.
Click to expand...
Ok I’ll leave it open. It’s coming together though:) Thanks!
 

Upvote 1

Attachments

  • replica.jpg
    replica.jpg
    38.4 KB · Views: 32
Upvote 8
Upvote 2
that is so odd how it was copied so inaccurately and for what ever reason.
 

Upvote 0
Bramblefind said:
I think this may be it -

www.worthpoint.com

GREAT BRITAIN / FANTASY MEDAL ST GEORGE SLAYING DRAGON ALUMINUM | #4590124553

COLLECTABLES FROMVANGUARD COLLECTABLESITEM DESCRIPTIONSEE TITLE FOR DESCRIPTION SEE PICS. SEE PIC FOR CONDITION . PHOTOS ARE OF THE ACTUAL ITEM YOU WILL RECEIVE. SEE PICS. .PAYMENTPAYPAL Local pickup
www.worthpoint.com www.worthpoint.com
Click to expand...

Lenrac2 said:
I think you nailed it!
Click to expand...

Bingo... that's definitely it, although it doesn't bring us any closer to who made it, where or why. "Fantasy medal" is a bit of a catch-all that leaves open a number of possibilities. At least if it is aluminium we can say it's a relatively modern item and not earlier than the very late 19th Century. More likely 20th Century.
 

Upvote 2
Upvote 1
You must log in or register to reply here.

A James Avery Silver Ring I Found

⬅️ Previous Thread

Terni Bayonet

Next Thread ➡️

Top Member Reactions

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 2 (members: 0, guests: 2)

Latest Discussions

Back
Top