Need Help Identifying couple Buttons

[SGTBilko]

I hunted an old tavern in Dayton the other day and found a nice Eagle button Cavalry I believe, made by "Canfield Bro & Co - Baltimore" but the shank and back fell off when I got it home and brushed it off...

I also found a 1884 Indian head penny in fairly good shape, except for the rookie mistake I made and scratched the nose a little...OUCH!!
I was hoping to get some help in identifying a couple other buttons I found.
-One button has a star in the middle with some wings or something? This has on the back the words "Standard Treble" not sure of material
-The other button has a crest on it with an open back that is rusted out, possibly made out of brass or copper?

If anyone can help identify these and the circa of the Eagle button , which I believe is Civil War , I would greatly appreciate it.

Thanks!!

Sgtbilko

 

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[TheCannonballGuy]

SGTBilkpo wrote:
> If anyone can help identify these and the circa of the Eagle button , which I believe is Civil War , I would greatly appreciate it.

Your button with the "Standard Treble" backmark dates from approximately 1800 to about the 1840s.

The ironbacked flat button with crest and highly-raised rim appears to be a 20th-century civilian blazer/sports-jacket button.

Note that your cavalry button's letter C has two "knobs" on the end of the letter's top. It is shown in the Albert button-book as CV-2. Various evidence strongly indicates CV-2 is from the slightly-postwar era (approximately 1870 and a bit later).

The evidence:
1- Several of the various backmarks found on CV-2 buttons are strictly postwar era (such as the Armstrong backmark and Stout backmark). Also, none of the various CV-2 backmarks is strictly pre-1866.
2- Almost no CV-2 buttons have been excavated from civil war sites. The very few that have come from civil war sites were most probably lost by veterans visiting the sites in postwar years.

Yes, your button's backmark (Canfield Bro. & Co. Baltimore) is found on various pre-1866 buttons ...but that company continued in business though 1880.

 

[Kenosha Kid]

Yes, your button's backmark (Canfield Bro. & Co. Baltimore) is found on various pre-1866 buttons ...but that company continued in business though 1880.

This site lists the various Canfield partnership names and dates :

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~silversmiths/makers/partners/partners_c.htm

Canfield & Brother ~ 1835-1865 (Ira, Jared and William Canfield)
Canfield Brothers & Co ~ 1866-1879/80 (Ira & William Canfield plus various partners) Ira, Sr. died in 1879.
Canfield & Co ~ 1881-? (Ira, Jr. and William Canfield plus Isabella Durham ... Ira, Jr.'s mother)

This one shows a Canfield Bros. & Co from 1848-1881; however, that is when Ira, Jr. was born :

http://www.sterlingflatwarefashions.com/Silversmiths/SilversmithsC1.html

Note that your cavalry button's letter C has two "knobs" on the end of the letter's top. It is shown in the Albert button-book as CV-2. Various evidence strongly indicates CV-2 is from the slightly-postwar era (approximately 1870 and a bit later).

What makes it confusing, aside from trying to find records of companies that only existed in the 1800s, is that other sites list Canfield Bros & Co as having made buttons in the 1850s ...

http://www.relicman.com/buttons/zArchiveButtonFedGovCavalry.htm (top button, states "Scovill manufactured 1850's, Ref: Albert CV1, Tice CV215A1 or 2, not listed.") Note the lack of the 'two knobs' TheCannonballGuy referred to.

... but there are records of court cases from 1855, showing Canfield Brothers & Co. v. McCarty.

 

[SGTBilko]

SGTBilkpo wrote:
> If anyone can help identify these and the circa of the Eagle button , which I believe is Civil War , I would greatly appreciate it.

Your button with the "Standard Treble" backmark dates from approximately 1800 to about the 1840s.

The ironbacked flat button with crest and highly-raised rim appears to be a 20th-century civilian blazer/sports-jacket button.

Note that your cavalry button's letter C has two "knobs" on the end of the letter's top. It is shown in the Albert button-book as CV-2. Various evidence strongly indicates CV-2 is from the slightly-postwar era (approximately 1870 and a bit later).

The evidence:
1- Several of the various backmarks found on CV-2 buttons are strictly postwar era (such as the Armstrong backmark and Stout backmark). Also, none of the various CV-2 backmarks is strictly pre-1866.
2- Almost no CV-2 buttons have been excavated from civil war sites. The very few that have come from civil war sites were most probably lost by veterans visiting the sites in postwar years.

Yes, your button's backmark (Canfield Bro. & Co. Baltimore) is found on various pre-1866 buttons ...but that company continued in business though 1880.

Thanks for all the Help guy's, I found another button about an hour ago at the same old tavern that I will be listing later, it is a flat button. The tavern was built in the 1850's/1860's....Thanks again!!

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

Kenosha Kid, the points you raise are reasonable. Please don't take any of the following as a negative response.

I rely primarily on the info in the McGuinn-&-Bazelon book, for two reasons:
1- It is ONLY about backmarks ...whereas all other books "about buttons" (except Tice's) are focused on ID-ing the buttons, with much less research put into the backmarks. As the McGuinn-&-Bazelon book's title makes clear, it is specifically about backmarks and accurately dating them: "American Military Button Makers and Dealers; Ther Backmarks & Dates." No other book includes all the various permutations of spelling, abbreviations, punctuaton, and symbols which can be found in a backmark. No other book has literally hundreds of photos to let you actually see the backmarks.
2- I knew Bill McGuinn and Bruce Bazelon personally. The quality and depth of their historical research was some of the best I've ever encountered. The reason there are so many "editions" of their book is that they continually updated it with additional and/or corrected backmark-dating info, from their unending research.

I was a dealer of dug and non-dug civil war buttons for approximately 30 years. As such, my personal reputation was "on the line" with every button in my inventory. I had to be sure each button I sold was precisely what I said it was on my sales-labels ...including being a pre-1866 button. Please note, I'm not saying any of that as bragging. I'm just explaining why I've been so rigorous in my studying of backmarks and their time-periods.

About the various Canfield backmarks (and the points raised by Kenosha Kid):
We can be sure that the info from some sources is incorrect. Backmarks which say specifically "Canfield Bro. & Co." are on many definitely-1850s military buttons ...quite notably, on Virginia State Seal buttons. See http://www.relicman.com/buttons/zArchiveButtonConstatesVirginiaC2pieceSwordDown.htm

I dug a VA State Seal button with the "Canfield Bro. & Co. Baltimor" (sic) backmark at a Confederatecannon-emplacement on Marye's heights at Fredericksburg.

One important point of info which SGTBilko hasn't mentioned is whether his Canfield backmark is the RMDC type or the DM type. Perhaps he is new enough to the hobby that he doesn't know the difference ...as may be the case with some other readers here. Translation: RMDC - Raised-Mark [in a] Depressed-Channel. DM = Depressed-Mark.

In summary... I'm relying a bit more on the "two knobs" serif on the letter C than I am on the backmark ...because we know for certain that button-makers occasionally used leftover backs from previous years (or decades) when they were assembling new buttons. For example, when you see a strictly-postwar State Seal button with a civil war era backmark, you know it can only be the result of using old backs at the button-factory.

 

[Kenosha Kid]

Kenosha Kid, the points you raise are reasonable. Please don't take any of the following as a negative response.

We can be sure that the info from some sources is incorrect. Backmarks which say specifically "Canfield Bro. & Co." are on many definitely-1850s military buttons ...quite notably, on notably, Virginia State Seal buttons. .

No offense taken. I view it as constructive criticism or learning something new every day.

Many of the button manufacturers were also silversmiths. It just ticks me off when I check a site for a company history and know they have incorrect and/or conflicting statements. I'm just trying to get the proper date(s) for any given company; most are correct when it comes to backmarks ... and then you get the oddball one like this one.

I know Canfield Bros & Co. was earlier than some of the (above) links mentioned, as evidenced by the 1855 court case I cited and the Virginia State Seal buttons you linked to. They are also listed as a supplier to the US Army for dragoons caps and plates "as late as 1860".

http://books.google.com/books?id=tr...esnum=6&ved=0CDsQ6AEwBTgK#v=onepage&q&f=false (page 101)

Thanks for the info on the McGuinn-&-Bazelon book. It's one I'll definitely have to get ahold of.

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

Glad to hear you didn't take offense. I am only here to be of assistance at obtaining the Historical facts about the objects we find.

Since you say you intend to buy the McGuinn-&-Bazelon book... make sure you get the newest (most up-to-date) of the many editions. It is hardbound, with a linen cover whose color I can best describe as "creamy butternut." (Earlier editions had a red or navy-blue or green cover.)