Need Help identifying a flint/stone/rock [SOLVED]

[ARBAELO]

Hi,

Several years ago I found this flint/stone/rock amulet . I have been looking on the internet for some more information, but I haven't found anything so far.
The item has been found 30 cm under the ground in a small desert in northern Iraq region.
Hope this helps to id the item even more.

The amulet is made out of flint well it smells like flint, but I could be wrong.
I first thought it had something to do with egyptian amulets.

Who knows what it is, and how old it might be? And maybe an estimate of the value.

i have made some pictures i hope they are sharp enough to see some of the symbols. I did'nt had a digital camera at the moment when those pictures where taking. The pictures aren't sharp as you can see, but maybe you can see the scorpion symbol underneath. i did'nt recognize the other symbols it looks like a swan or goose but again i could be wrong.

I hope i have giving you guys enough information to work with and hopefully id this item.

 

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[romeo-1]

Re: Need help identifying a flint/stone amulet

Those carvings are pretty crisp...it may be more modern although I know little of these things. Where was this found?

 

[ARBAELO]

Re: Need help identifying a flint/stone amulet

Hello guys

thanks for the fast responses
i have to admit the pictures are really blurry i didnt had digital camera when the pictures where taking.
i hope i can repost some better and sharper pictures soon.
well about the amulet actually a friend of mine found this 30 cm under the ground in a nearby desert.
i really am no expert in these things. so like you said romeo-1 this could be from this modern time or this could be something really old.

but like i have said this rock smells like flint.
i still hope someone does id this item

 

[ARBAELO]

Re: Need help identifying a flint/stone amulet

would these be the symbols on your item?

A Snake, Pegasus and a Phoenix?

underneath the item the symbol is a scorpion but i think your right about the other two symbols
so this could be a carved bullet right?

 

[Oroblanco]

Re: Need help identifying a flint/stone amulet

I think this is a three sided stamp seal, probably circa ~ 500 BC to 1200 BC; not sure about the bird symbol but may be either Egyptian origin or Phoenician, as they made many with Egyptian motifs and symbols. If that were a swan I would go further and say it identifies with Tyre, but not sure it is a swan, may be a phoenix.

The design is cut into the stamp rather than raised, so that it could be pressed against wet clay or hot wax as a seal; I would suggest pressing it against some wet clay to get the full benefit of what it was intended to be used for. It would have been worn on a pendant by the owner, possibly a tax or customs official in ancient times or a military officer. A very cool find and yes I am jealous! Congratulations!

There are good photos of many ancient stamp seals held by various museums online, just do a search and you may well find a near match for it was not unusual for an official to have several seals which had a set design which indicated the owner or official. Some examples at this site"
http://ettuantiquities.com/seals_thumbnails_1.htm

Cylinder seals are more well known, but stamp seals come in all shapes imaginable. I hope you will press your find against some wet clay, take a photo and post it for us, usually the stamped designs are really neat.

Oroblanco

 

[ARBAELO]

Re: Need help identifying a flint/stone amulet

Oroblanco i think you solved this mystery item
i have to say it looks like a stamp when thinking about it
it also has a fourth side stamp its on the top with a star symbol i think.

The item has been found 30 cm under the ground in a small desert in northern Iraq region
hope this helps to id the item even more
any thought of the value of the item. i'm not selling it but just wondering what the value could be

i will be making some pictures soon with also some stamps on a clay

thanks again for this great information and explanation one of the best explanation i ever have read
also thanks texastee2007 for you help i have to say it was really close and looked like a carved bullet

thanks again you guys

 

[Gunny71]

Re: Need help identifying a flint/stone amulet

Looks like an incredible find!
Please update this with better pictures and impressions!

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Re: Need help identifying a flint/stone amulet

I agree looks like a Phoenix.

 

[ARBAELO]

Re: Need help identifying a flint/stone amulet

Is the top some kind of star?

Yes the top is a star
but i can't tell what kind of star it is
only thing i can tell that it's a 8 pointed star

 

[Oroblanco]

Re: Need help identifying a flint/stone amulet

Arbaelo - you are certainly welcome, and it may well turn out that you can help out one of us in identifying a mystery item some time. I also forgot to say WELCOME TO TREASURENET Arbaelo, and my congratulations again on a really cool find!

The location where you found it would sure hint at the original owners being likely Babylonian (or aka Chaldean) Hittite, even Sumerian, it could be much older than my guess at 1200 BC too, as in before ~2770 BC up to 4000 BC. That eight pointed star might be your best clue, it is the symbol used to signify the Sumerian goddess Innana, goddess of love, fertility and warfare.

As for a value I can't even make a good guess, I know that less-interesting examples have sold in the $350-$400 range but they usually had a pretty noticeable flaw or damage. It could be much more than that. This seller
http://www.edgarlowen.com/near-eastern-art.shtml
..has some stamp seals for sale, you might get a better idea by looking at similar ones.

This might be worth a BANNER vote in my opinion, for you don't find this every day!

Thank you for the very kind words Arbaelo, and I look forward to some more photos!
your friend in 'Dakota Territory'
Oroblanco

 

[Oroblanco]

Re: Need help identifying a flint/stone amulet

TT thank you for reminding me, I had forgot to cast my vote! I owe you one,
your friend,
Roy

 

[ARBAELO]

Re: Need help identifying a flint/stone amulet

Hi again

i really cant thank you guys enough for this great information about this item.
this is one of the best forums i have seen with some great information and fast responses.
so its a pleasure to be a new member on this forum.

about the stamp i have to say that it's in a great condition it has barely a scratch or something and the carved symbols are also in great condition.
Well i'm for sure this is a keeper.
i'm still waiting to get my digital camera back and make some better pictures
so the pictures are coming soon.

i think without you guys i was still guessing at this very moment what this item could might be
i really appreciate your help
thanks again to all you guys who have responded tho this topic

and before i forget i also want to thank the one who has editing my pictures to the perfect size to be better viewable.

 

[ARBAELO]

Re: Need Help identifying a flint/stone/rock

That would be great if the stamp gets on the banner.
but first thing to do is making some better quality pictures not only if i get selected for the banner but also for the topic.
thanks again for the votes Oroblanco, texastee2007 and every one that has already voted.

 

[ARBAELO]

Re: Need Help identifying a flint/stone/rock

Reposted some pictures hope they are good enough
will post some more pictures with some stamps on a clay very soon

 

[Oroblanco]

A big Dakota HOWDY amigos,

The more I look at that ancient Near Eastern stamp seal, the more I think the stone is steatite; it is a type of soapstone and in the right color and finish, and was one of the favored choices for making them. It is also called "black pipestone" and I think you can still buy it for carving.

I look forward to seeing what the stamps look like, when stamped - I forgot to suggest that the kids "Play-Dough" stuff works great for this, and being usually in light colors it will allow that stamped design to stand right out.

Thank you for posting the excellent photos. The scorpion and bird motif made me think Egyptian, but the standing dragon holding a staff is clearly Near East. The dragon is most likely to represent Tiamat, which would mean Babylonian and they did make stamp seals of steatite. I suspect that the bird is an Ibis, and could stand for the Egyptian god of learning, writing etc Thoth. The scorpion is harder to pin down, but I would suggest taking it to a museum to get an expert opinion.

I would be doing backflips if I ever found one like yours amigo, my compliments and hearty congratulations, hope you get the banner!
your friend,
Roy ~ Oroblanco

 

[ARBAELO]

Thanks for the great information Oroblanco
it seems you figured this thing out for 99%

well i hope i will find other things in the near future. im always looking for these great finds
i mostly travel to the Iraq region where these things can be found so there is a lot for me to find out there. with a country like Iraq and with one of the greatest histories you never know what you could find.


thanks again for the help my friend

 

[lazooro]

AMAZING!!!

 

[ARBAELO]

i have to say if i take this to a museum it would be not in Iraq like you said and i agree with you about the laws over there.
i'm living in the Netherlands so i could bring this to a museum here to get some more information i hope with no problems

i have to say texastee2007 i also find it really funny how a Pegasus turned out to be a dragon

the camera that i used was from a friend of mine didn't look what kind of camera it was really
i have giving my own camera to another friend of mine who is with vacation

I'm 100% sure there are still other great very old items in the area where i have found this
in about2 months i will be going to the same exact place where i found this item and thats to find more great treasures
and hopefully show you guys my finds.

Arbaelo

 

[Oroblanco]

TexasTee - hoo boy when you are right, you are right! I was thinking of a civilized and stable country, Iraq does not fit that description for sure and even if there should not be any problems, the authorities could be very corrupt, maybe seize the stamp or even trump up some kind of charges. I do not suggest consulting any museum in Iraq for sure.

Also I am guessing at the dragon vs Pegasus, it could be Pegasus for all I know. An expert could make a positive ID and a date too, I was just guessing based on what I have seen over the years.

One more thing my friend TT - never say never! You never know what you will find! Chief Joseph (Nez Perce) had an ancient Babylonian cuneiform clay tablet, no one has any theory as to how it ended up in his possession, and Roman coins have been found in Texas too. (One example was at Round Rock TX, regardless of whether the isolationists will admit how it got there, doesn't matter to the finder!) The Mound builder culture dates back a couple thousand years and used copper tools and items and some of them were living in Texas too. Texas has a lot of history, there are far worse places to be for a treasure hunter for sure! <check out http://www.science-frontiers.com/sf090/sf090a02.htm some time when you have nothing else to do>

Arbaelo - good luck and good hunting on your searches, and please be extra careful in Iraq. It looks like you have a 'honey hole' there where that stamp seal turned up, who knows what else may be there? Maybe the treasure of queen Semiramis! As far as I know, no one has ever found it, though a famous gate in Babylon she had built was once torn apart in ancient times to look for it all they got was a note from her saying "shame on your for destroying my gate to look for my treasure" - that old girl Semiramis had a good sense of humor. You never know what will turn up.
your friend in 'Dakota Territory'
Oroblanco