Need bullet ID (UPDATED WITH BETTER PICS)

[Kiros32]

Found this with several CW relics. This thing was at least 1 1/2 inches long before fired. I have never seen a bullet of this size.

Any idea what it is?

Thanks,
J

 

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[CRUSADER]

Re: Need bullet ID

Could be a .577 martini-henry round?

 

[Kiros32]

Re: Need bullet ID

I will take some better photos tonight, but this is interesting: The base of the bullet is concave and it looks like it has a double rim (didn't know how else to describe it). The base looks like a circle within a circle. The photos I take later will help with this description.

 

[Monty]

Re: Need bullet ID

The diameter and weight of the bullet are the two most important features to help identify a bullet, so if you could do that it would help. Monty

 

[Kiros32]

Re: Need bullet ID

The diameter and weight of the bullet are the two most important features to help identify a bullet, so if you could do that it would help. Monty

I will post that info tonight along with some better pictures. The base of the bullet is a bit flattened, but at its widest, the diameter is 15mm, at its smallest, 13mm.

 

[CRUSADER]

Re: Need bullet ID

I just measured my martini-henry round & its base is 12mm & length is 33mm. Might help??

 

[Kiros32]

Re: Need bullet ID

I just measured my martini-henry round & its base is 12mm & length is 33mm. Might help??

Thanks Crusader. Check the bottom of yours. Is it flat or is there an indentation? Mine has one of 5-6 mm.

 

[Monty]

Re: Need bullet ID

Taking into consideration that the bullet has been fired, it is around .50 caliber. I have .45-70 and the bullet diameter measures about 11.63 mm, so it is larger than .458" diameter. Somewhere I have a "Cartridges of the World" book but can't locate it right now. According to my "Guns of the World", the 1861 Springfield in .52 Caliber was the most common rifle used in the Civil War. Monty

 

[Kiros32]

Thanks Monty.

Here are some better photos of the bullet. The first one shows it next to other Minies that I have dug. The bullet in question is the one on the right.

The others show the base of the bullet. As you can see, it appears to have 2 rims and it has a indentation on the bottom.

It may be a common Springfield as you mentioned Monty, but it just looks larger than any other that I have dug or scene.

Thanks for you help!

 

[d2]

It could be from a Whitworth rifle...d2

 

[Monty]

That sure is an unusual looking bullet. I am usually pretty good on bullets but this one has me stumped. It hasn't the usual shape of a minnie ball and I am inclined to believe it came from a cartridge rifle rather than a muzzle loader. I am betting it had a roundnose instead of the tapered dome of the normal minnie ball. Monty

 

[Kiros32]

That sure is an unusual looking bullet. I am usually pretty good on bullets but this one has me stumped. It hasn't the usual shape of a minnie ball and I am inclined to believe it came from a cartridge rifle rather than a muzzle loader. I am betting it had a roundnose instead of the tapered dome of the normal minnie ball. Monty

In that case Monty, I think Crusader may be on to something. Check out the .577 Martini-Henry cartridge, third from left. It is a large cartridge shot with a round nose.

 

[CRUSADER]

Re: Need bullet ID

I just measured my martini-henry round & its base is 12mm & length is 33mm. Might help??

Thanks Crusader. Check the bottom of yours. Is it flat or is there an indentation? Mine has one of 5-6 mm.

Mine only has a 2mm indentation but its characteristics are very similar.
As monty suggests this must be a cartridge type not a muzzel-loader.

I have a bullet expert contact in the US which if you PM me tonite (that your afternoon) to remind me I will pass on.

 

[Kiros32]

Re: Need bullet ID

I just measured my martini-henry round & its base is 12mm & length is 33mm. Might help??

Thanks Crusader. Check the bottom of yours. Is it flat or is there an indentation? Mine has one of 5-6 mm.

Mine only has a 2mm indentation but its characteristics are very similar.
As monty suggests this must be a cartridge type not a muzzel-loader.

I have a bullet expert contact in the US which if you PM me tonite (that your afternoon) to remind me I will pass on.

Let's say we positively ID this as a Martini-Henry cartridge. This certainly would not have been a common rifle during the Civil War considering it was most commonly used by the British and Zulu.

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

Especially uncommon in the CW as the time machines needed to get it back 10 years before it was first produced were very scarce.

 

[Kiros32]

Especially uncommon in the CW as the time machines needed to get it back 10 years before it was first produced were very scarce.

Cute

I stand corrected...but most of my comment still applies, regarding a British/African rilfe in Kearneysville, WV in the late 1800s. Just thinking out loud I guess.

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

The CW & just after was a wild time in firearms development. Here's a site that has a good sampling of dug bullets.

http://www.civilwaroutpost.com/Bullets.htm

Just a side note - most of the muskets in use by both sides in the CW were .58 caliber (0.577"). After the war a common conversion from muzzleloader to breechloader (the "Snider" Conversion) allowed .577 cartridges (the one on the left in the four cartridge image above) to be used in the gozillion muskets seized, liberated or bought in lots by contractors. ("trapdoor" breech). The original Martni-Henrys were in that caliber (though Snider was American). Then a bottleneck version called the .577/.450 Peabody-Martini-Henry. It was a .45 caliber. That's what yours appears to be.

 

[hasbeen]

That sure is an unusual looking bullet. I am usually pretty good on bullets but this one has me stumped. It hasn't the usual shape of a minnie ball and I am inclined to believe it came from a cartridge rifle rather than a muzzle loader. I am betting it had a roundnose instead of the tapered dome of the normal minnie ball. Monty

In that case Monty, I think Crusader may be on to something. Check out the .577 Martini-Henry cartridge, third from left. It is a large cartridge shot with a round nose.

The cartridge third from the left in not a .577 Martini-Henry,it is a .577/450 Martini-Henry(.45 caliber bullet).The cartridge at the far left appears to be a .577 Snider.

Hold a piece of paper on your bullet picture in front of the lube grooves.markthe top and bottom of the bullet on the paper then measure between the marks with the ruler pictured below the bullet.The bullet measures a bit over 9/16 " in diameter(.5625).I'm betting it is a .58 caliber bullet from a muzzle loading rifle.

hasbeen

 

[Kiros32]

I sent the pictures to an expert and he identified the bullet as a .54 Confederate Gardner insert bullet. I looked at other photos and it appears to be the one. Thanks for everyone's help!