Nazi plate........

[d2]

This was found in a trunk that belonged to my neighbor. He fought in WWII though he never talked much about it. I wonder where he got it or if he brought it back from Europe when he was there. Maybe he got it at a reunion. I cant find any info on this at all. I hate doing much searching for nazi items because I figure I will find all sorts of crappy sites I do not wish to visit and was hoping someone here knew something about it. A horrible group of people and a worse time in the history of the world but this plate belonged to someone I thought the world of and I would like some info on this if possible. Thanks...d2

 

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[Treasure_Hunter]

Sorry I can't help on it, but I would venture to say odds are good it is authentic by the back of the plate.

 

[timekiller]

Here's the closes match I had to it in a book I've got with marks.
Take Care,
Pete,

 

[d2]

Thanks for the help. If anyone knows of a website or military collectable place where I might find out some more info I would appreciate it and I do so appreciate y'alls help so far...d2

 

[Bramblefind]

I found this conversation on a message board - unfortunately I cannot access the photo of the plate but it sounds like the plate is an original 1937 Bauscher Weiden like yours but that they think the front was painted or covered with a transfer print at a more modern time- but maybe this board could help you out?

SS plate - Wehrmacht-Awards.com Militaria Forums

 

[Retired Sarge]

Here's the same mark for Bauscher Weiden. Then there is the Adolf Hilter across the bottom of the plate with unit insignia around it.

 

[DCMatt]

Bramblefind,

That is an interesting conversation from people who love their hobby.

I think the key comment is - "there were no SS units until 1939". I don't know if it is true but I'm sure it will be easy to determine the accuracy of the statement. If true, the plate is a fake.

DCMatt

 

[nsdq]

interesting , if your neighbor is willing ask what unit he was with, as it may somthng from a field marshall house or office that was captured during the war, lots of dinner ware and other items made it back to the states near thelast days of ww2

 

[ABruce]

You have to be Verrrrry careful with these third reich decorative plates. Lot's of plain, white standard SS issue tableware survived the war and as far back as the 1970s lot's of these decorative plates began appearing at militaria and gun shows. While they are very well done, one tip is to look at the glaze. Are the decorative images UNDER the glaze or applied OVER the glaze? Original plates are definitely decorated UNDER the glaze.

 

[Retired Sarge]

The plate on Wehrmacht Awards is the same identical plate. Same SS units and all. So according to them it's a fantasy piece. Here's the pictures of the plate from that site. The plate itself is original, the decal on the front is the fantasy part.

 

[d2]

Mike, thanks a million for the info. My neighbor passed away several years ago, of all things skin cancer. Made it through the war and went from Africa to the beaches at Normandy and all across Europe with out a scratch and died because he worked outside in the sun, farming all his life. We have no idea where he got it. Maybe some one bought it and and give it to him. We will never know. Once again I thank y'all for the info y'all have given me and I will pass it on...d2

 

[d2]

Mike, thanks a million for the info. My neighbor passed away several years ago, of all things skin cancer. Made it through the war and went from Africa to the beaches at Normandy and all across Europe with out a scratch and died because he worked outside in the sun, farming all his life. We have no idea where he got it. Maybe some one bought it and and give it to him. We will never know. Once again I thank y'all for the info y'all have given me and I will pass it on...d2

 

[DeeDee]

Sadly, my family from germany (my late father's side)(in my case, were german jews) were ones of the millions slaughtered at the hands of the SS. (only my grandfather got away because of his family sending him away to america right before the horror of Kristallnacht took place).Hence since then, I have done much reading and research on Adolph and his henchmen thugs. And no, these men were wrong, 1939 was not the beginning of the SS. The SS slowly began with a few men back in the early 1920's, to surround Hitler as a protection unit of sorts. And by 1933, these few grew to a total of 50,000 men, who went by the name of "Schutzstaffel", aka SS. The rest as they say, is history. Though it seems that some people out there on other forums should double check their historic research a bit more. The plate is authentic.

- Deanna

ps. d2, No hard feelings towards you in the least. You posted a find that has some dark history to it, but that is that. Thank you for your courtesy, and for your kind words with this matter though. Plates such as these were used to "promote" the Third Reich to the German people and to promote Hitler as a leader who would "wash clean those who did not follow "German/Aryan principles and standards". And by the mid 30's, the Third Reich was already formally established, yet would not be historically acknowledged until the latter 1930's. Hope I was able to give you some bit of history and insight, and know that my anger lies not with you, but at people who assume they know that which they speak of, like those in that forum; for when one does not go by facts, but rather follows only assumptions or opinions, history is jaded, and tragedy will surely follow.


all the best to you always...

Deanna

 

[Retired Sarge]

@ Dee Dee, my grand father on my mothers side was picked up by the SS and sent to a munitions factory, they were from Holland. He was discharged from the Dutch Army after an injury, then after the German occupation, he went to work with the Dutch Underground, he refused to collaborate with the Germans. He was picked up by the SS and the rest is history. He didn't make it home until 1946 or 1947.

They are not saying that the SS didn't exist prior to 1939 or 1937 as this plate is dated. They are saying that some on the SS units depicted on the plate did not exist prior to 1939. So the question is how can a specific units emblem be placed on a 1937 plate, when the unit didn't come about until after 1939. No one is denying the existence of the SS prior to 1937.

 

[Retired Sarge]

The Standard being carried by the German soldier is the Leibstandarte SS Adolf Hitler (LSSAH) Standard used from 1940 to 1945. The emblems on the plate clockwise left to right. So only two unit emblems depicted on the plate came about or existed prior to 1937.

1. 9th SS Panzer Division "Hohenstaufen" formed 31 Decemeber 1942
2. 7th SS Volunteer Mountain Division "Prinz Eugen" formed March 1942
3. 5th SS Panzer Division "Wiking" formed late 1940 early 1941
4. 3rd SS Division "Tokenkopf" formed October 1939
5. 1st SS Division Leibstandarte, Hitler's bodyguards formed April 1933, although it's roots are tied to a unit formed in early 1923
6. SS formed 04 April 1925
7. 2nd SS panzer Divison "Das Reich" formed 1939
8. 4th SS Polizei-Panzergrenadier Division formed 1939
9. 6th SS Mountain Division "Nord" formed September 1941
10. 8th SS Cavalry Division "Florian Geyer" formed 1942
11. 10th SS Panzer Division "Frundsberg" formed 02 January 1943

 

[Retired Sarge]

....Though it seems that some people out there on other forums should double check their historic research a bit more. The plate is authentic.

- Deanna

ps. d2, .... Hope I was able to give you some bit of history and insight, and know that my anger lies not with you, but at people who assume they know that which they speak of, like those in that forum; for when one does not go by facts, but rather follows only assumptions or opinions, history is jaded, and tragedy will surely follow.


all the best to you always...

Deanna

Most of us do not claim to be experts, but we are very knowledgable on the areas/topics/subjects we choose to answer on. Before you tell people they are wrong or make assumptions that we don't know our history, please read carefully what was said and do a little research yourself. I love military history, therefore I have read tons on it to include WWII history. I had family fighting on several fronts during WWII, my family fought for the US in the Pacific, for the US and the Dutch in Europe and believe it or not for the Germans. So please choose your words carefully when doubting our knowledge.

My mother was born and raised in Holland, on my father's side we are German American, so we still have family living in Germany today!

 

[DeeDee]

Thank you sir,,,but as you could tell if you actually read what i said too, then you would know that the comments were directed at the fools who had said the info about 1939, which is hardly correct, let alone factual. And coming from someone who claims to be as read as you say you are, i find it strange that you were the only one that seemed to feel that those words were directed at you, when everyone else who read this seemed to understand this. And i also do believe that my post had nothing to do with you or anyone else on this forum except for d2, and in saying that, he would be the only one that would have a right to say anything in response. So maybe try and stay out of that which does not involve you, and maybe realize that this is 2012...not 1950, and women do have the right to educate themselves, not just knit a sweater for the old man any longer. d2...i'm glad we could talk in message, you're a good guy. Stay gold ...not tarnished silver or brass like others in this world.

peace..

 

[Retired Sarge]

At no time did my response on this topic, have anything to do with your sex. I am aware it's 2012 and I personally take that remark as stab at my integrity. My 23 years of service was to ensure that peoples rights were preserved, and I am by no means a sexist, nor do I discriminate against anyone.

 

[Gunrunner61]

Mike, I'd like to take this time to thank you for your service to our Country, You and the people like you and my nephew, Who is fixin to deploy to Afganistan
For the Fourth time! Are who let myself and folks like DeeDee voice our opinions, Without worrying about being picked up in the middle of the night, Only to
disapear into the dark hole of an Evil goverment, Thank you for my freedom,
Gunrunner61

 

[CSA2K]

Collectors of militaria, and armchair historians, as most of us are, must naturally divorce ourselves from the politics behind many of the regimes behind our hobby. Much that has been said on this thread regarding Nazi Germany could easily be juxtaposed by some with the American Confederacy, Napoleon, the Roman Empire etc. This is not the forum for such views, righteous or otherwise. Lets keep it to the artifacts folks, please.