Navy Button and stamped lead

[asmerri]

Hello Everyone,

I found my first military button today at the 1885 home that I have been hitting over the last couple months. I'm pretty sure it's Navy but could really use some help on the era. Unfortunately the back is completely rusted.

I also found a very heavy stamped piece of lead in the same area that I found a Missouri Pacific Railroad button dating to 1885. The lead is stamped "MO PAC" so I'm sure it's from the same railroad company. Any ideas what it is though?

Thanks for looking!

 

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[duggap]

Your lead item looks like a lead seal. Show us the back of your button.

 

[asmerri]

Your lead item looks like a lead seal. Show us the back of your button.

Do you know what the lead seal would have been used for in the railroad industry? The back side of the button is completely rusted but here it is.

 

[duggap]

Railroad cars were sealed with those. As to your button, because the back is rusted, it would be a fashion button. Military ones had brass backs.

 

[HomeGuardDan]

Railroad cars were sealed with those. As to your button, because the back is rusted, it would be a fashion button. Military ones had brass backs.

The button is civilian. However, just to point out, military buttons do not all have brass backs. There were tin/iron backed buttons, even civil war era and earlier - including navy buttons. Again though, yours is indeed just civilian fashion.

HH

Dan

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

The button is civilian. However, just to point out, military buttons do not all have brass backs. There were tin/iron backed buttons, even civil war era and earlier - including navy buttons. Again though, yours is indeed just civilian fashion.

HH

Dan

True but the tin/iron backs do not rust as easily as the 20th century thin steel back posted here. Almost all Navy/Merchant Marine buttons have brass/bronze/copper backs. The only exception, that I am aware of, is a US Navy Kepi hat button which this is not. Nice seal.

This button design can be found on the Waterbury Button site by searching "anchor".

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

There are 10 pages of anchors on the Waterbury Button Co site so I saved you some time. 21375 - Waterbury Button

 

[asmerri]

There are 10 pages of anchors on the Waterbury Button Co site so I saved you some time. 21375 - Waterbury Button

Thank you for that. So this button doesn't really have much age to it?

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Thank you for that. So this button doesn't really have much age to it?

I believe thin steel backs date to the early 20th century.

 

[HomeGuardDan]

True but the tin/iron backs do not rust as easily as the 20th century thin steel back posted here. Almost all Navy/Merchant Marine buttons have brass/bronze/copper backs. The only exception, that I am aware of, is a US Navy Kepi hat button which this is not. Nice seal.

This button design can be found on the Waterbury Button site by searching "anchor".

There are US eagle letter buttons (vest) , US Staff buttons (kepi), not to mention Confederate buttons of all varieties. There are also post civil war us military buttons and US great seal buttons - all with the same type of back. It is impossible to tell the exact construction as it could be from high mineralized (salt) soil.

My point was not to start a thread within a thread, but just that we can not simply say it is not military just because of the iron/tin back.

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

Added info.

I think the main point is that the "navy style" button found by Asmerri is not a MILITARY-ISSUED button. (Translation: None of that specific type were on uniforms issued by the US Navy or US Army or State Militia.) As BigCypressHunter specifically noted, no actual US Navy-issued buttons had an iron back, with the sole exception of a rare Navy Kepi (hat) strap button. That being said, HomeGuardDan is correct in his comments that a few MILITARY-ISSUED buttons did have an iron back.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

There are US eagle letter buttons (vest) , US Staff buttons (kepi), not to mention Confederate buttons of all varieties. There are also post civil war us military buttons and US great seal buttons - all with the same type of back. It is impossible to tell the exact construction as it could be from high mineralized (salt) soil.

My point was not to start a thread within a thread, but just that we can not simply say it is not military just because of the iron/tin back.

Of course not and I agree but the key here is the fouled anchor which signifies boat related. Do you know of any other fouled anchor Navy/Merchant Marine steel/iron back buttons besides the Kepi hat button that I referred to? The kepi hat button actually has an eagle and an anchor and its the only US Navy iron back button made as far as I can ascertain. http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/what/285285-verify-kepi-button.html

I just realized CBG explained it better than I ever could. Great we are all in agreement SOLVED

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

My point was not to start a thread within a thread, but just that we can not simply say it is not military just because of the iron/tin back.

Yes indeed you are correct HGD....the statement

because the back is rusted, it would be a fashion button. Military ones had brass backs.

is not true.

I think duggap meant to say Navy. Switch the word military to US Navy and it would be closer to being true