Nautilus IIB vs Tejon

Two VERY different detectors. I have owned both but only have a very limited amount of hours in. Between the two I like the IIB better, hearing both conductive and ferrous sounds really seemed to suit my ears and I could catch on to knowing iron when I heard it more than the Tejon. For depth I'd have to give it to the nauty because with the 10.5"? coil it was hitting targets about as deep as my explorer and I wasn't even sure if i had ground balanced correctly. In the right hands, on the right dirt, especially with the 15" coil, I can believe the stories about it going super deep. The one thing I didn't like about it was, even with the ability of hearing so much of what was in the ground, I felt there was quite a bit of masking when I was around iron. The 6" coil might be a better answer. If I was to go back in time my detector of choice would definitely be the 2B.

PS... Having used an explorer for so long I consider it more a tool than a toy, but the 2B I actually enjoyed playing with.
 

Both great relic machines. The IIb is far deeper than anything out there but has a big learning curve if you want to get really good with it. Beginners can find metal with it, unfortunately it'll probably be mostly trash. Gotta get your ear tuned to it, and anyone who disagrees with that is digging a whole lot more trash than treasure. I've seen dedicated IIb users pull great finds out of trash that everyone else walked over. But they were dedicated solely to that machine. The Tejon has very good depth, is a snap to learn if you're a fairly experienced detectorist, and is a lot of fun to use. And of course it's a Tesoro.
 

Shenandoah Digger said:
Both great relic machines. The IIb is far deeper than anything out there but has a big learning curve if you want to get really good with it. Beginners can find metal with it, unfortunately it'll probably be mostly trash. Gotta get your ear tuned to it, and anyone who disagrees with that is digging a whole lot more trash than treasure. I've seen dedicated IIb users pull great finds out of trash that everyone else walked over. But they were dedicated solely to that machine. The Tejon has very good depth, is a snap to learn if you're a fairly experienced detectorist, and is a lot of fun to use. And of course it's a Tesoro.

Far deeper than anything out there? Maybe in very good *clean* ground, with the 15" coil, but other than that far deeper isn't accurate. My explorer can hit CW bullets in about the 15" range with a 10.5" coil, you think the IIB with same size coil does far better?
 

MD Dog said:
Oh Boy here we go. How can a MD with a 10.5" coil produce a magnetic field 15" wide ? :icon_scratch:


We're talking about depth. If anyone wants to get excited that's fine, but I finally see digging in my near future so I am good! :thumbsup:
 

Yes I understand depth but the physics of it make it impossible to get a 15" magnetic field from a 10.5" coil. So a 10.5" coil is limited in it's depth under maximum best conditions to 10.5" deep.
A 15"coil can under max best conditions reach 15" and so on and so forth. But if you want to believe different , OK :wink: :thumbsup:
 

MD Dog said:
Yes I understand depth but the physics of it make it impossible to get a 15" magnetic field from a 10.5" coil. So a 10.5" coil is limited in it's depth under maximum best conditions to 10.5" deep.
A 15"coil can under max best conditions reach 15" and so on and so forth. But if you want to believe different , OK :wink: :thumbsup:


So a 10.5" coil will only hit a CW shell at 10.5"? I hope your physics formula gets a little better than what's stated above.
 

MD Dog said:
Yes I understand depth but the physics of it make it impossible to get a 15" magnetic field from a 10.5" coil. So a 10.5" coil is limited in it's depth under maximum best conditions to 10.5" deep.
A 15"coil can under max best conditions reach 15" and so on and so forth. But if you want to believe different , OK :wink: :thumbsup:

What about the object being larger than a bullet? I've pulled iron (an axe head) from 17 inches in red clay with an 8" coil.
 

DD-777 said:
MD Dog said:
Yes I understand depth but the physics of it make it impossible to get a 15" magnetic field from a 10.5" coil. So a 10.5" coil is limited in it's depth under maximum best conditions to 10.5" deep.
A 15"coil can under max best conditions reach 15" and so on and so forth. But if you want to believe different , OK :wink: :thumbsup:

What about the object being larger than a bullet? I've pulled iron (an axe head) from 17 inches in red clay with an 8" coil.

Yep...Been there, done that. What about a 8" gear from a piece of farm equipment at 12" with the 5.75" coil on my silver. It's still buried and I hear it every time I pass over it.
Randy
 

Larger objects will return a signal, but that is because they are larger they have the larger signal bouce than say a coin. But since the manufacturers build these machines with their electronics specifically designed for coin sized targets, they are limited to how much power they can employ with the size of the coil on a coin sized target. The coil is used to send out a signal, that signal is bounced back by a target. A target of the largest coin size will not exceed the depth of the width of the coil. To do so would open them up to issues with the FCC. This is the governing body who sets limits on the amount of power a MD can employ with a given coil size. Some European Manufacturers aren't allowed to sell certain machines here because they exceed these limits on power. So here's your Physics lessons for all those too lazy to learn it for themselves. A MD can send out a signal based on the power limits set by the FCC for any given coil size on the Largest American Coin size. That is to say at what depth will the Largest U.S. made coin return a signal, that depth cannot exceed the coils width. So a Silver Dollar will be detectable down to 8" On an 8" coil, 10" on a 10" coil etc.... on Larger objects since the signal continues on until it hits something metallic and then bounces back, but limited by the size of the object and the size of the signal that will return. In other words if the signal isn't large enough it won't bounce back all the way to the coil. So yes some larger object will return a signal that can be detected deeper than the coils width, but it won't be a U.S. made coin. Anyone wanting to continue this argument can do so at your local colleges Physics dept. or call your manufacturer and ask them. :wink:
 

MD Dog said:
Larger objects will return a signal, but that is because they are larger they have the larger signal bouce than say a coin. But since the manufacturers build these machines with their electronics specifically designed for coin sized targets, they are limited to how much power they can employ with the size of the coil on a coin sized target. The coil is used to send out a signal, that signal is bounced back by a target. A target of the largest coin size will not exceed the depth of the width of the coil. To do so would open them up to issues with the FCC. This is the governing body who sets limits on the amount of power a MD can employ with a given coil size. Some European Manufacturers aren't allowed to sell certain machines here because they exceed these limits on power. So here's your Physics lessons for all those too lazy to learn it for themselves. A MD can send out a signal based on the power limits set by the FCC for any given coil size on the Largest American Coin size. That is to say at what depth will the Largest U.S. made coin return a signal, that depth cannot exceed the coils width. So a Silver Dollar will be detectable down to 8" On an 8" coil, 10" on a 10" coil etc.... on Larger objects since the signal continues on until it hits something metallic and then bounces back, but limited by the size of the object and the size of the signal that will return. In other words if the signal isn't large enough it won't bounce back all the way to the coil. So yes some larger object will return a signal that can be detected deeper than the coils width, but it won't be a U.S. made coin. Anyone wanting to continue this argument can do so at your local colleges Physics dept. or call your manufacturer and ask them. :wink:

They will also tell you an arrow will not bend when shot from a bow. :tard:
 

A metal detector with an 8" coil normally radiates an electromagnetic field in a rather billowed configuration (with cancer sores here and there) both on the top of the coil and on the bottom too. In normal instances though the image when viewing iron filings dropped on top of a piece of paper over the side of the coil reveals a weird pattern somewhat resembling two very large (each around 4 feet in circumference) radiated fields, back-to-back, with the negative voltage/EMF field on the top of the coil windings, and the positive voltage/EMF on the bottom of the coil windings. The field becomes wider and wider as the EMF field weakens radiating outward, much like waves do on water.

Now this means also that since the negative field is the weaker force (not to be confused with the "weak force", as in quantum mechanics) it will produce a lesser degree of useability and intensity than the positive field on the bottom side. The unuseable EMF for smaller items will still radiate a total field size of 8 feet + for a larger item. If in doubt, try the coil out on a car body or steel fence and you will quickly learn that there are more than even these two parameters that I just mentioned regarding total radiation fields. With some detectors though the outer field area crosses over each other as far as readability or detectability, but this is due to recover speed and many other factors, including voltage group clusters. This crossover of readability for small items is not as true with multi frequency detectors though. But of course multis only utilize one frequency at a time anyway, as most techs and all EE's already know.

In normal cases this all roughly equates to total use as is comprised of a voltage gradient of maximum useable voltage for small items extending outward from the side of the coil, roughly equating to slightly 20% lesser than the total area of the localized (useable, readable voltage) small item manageability from TOP of field to BOTTOM of field. This means that the search field is greater from top-to-bottom of useable EMF than it is from side-to-side. In other words the useable for (MOST) coin-sized objects field in taller than it is wide, by around 20%.

In short again, if a well-made detector has an 8" coil it normally has the ability to detect (in air, with zero interference) a coin-sized object often exceeding 10". This is not always true though, I had a Sov that although it worked as it should it still got only 10.5" (in air) with it's 10" coil and so did an SE.

Keith Wills is the first person who designed a discriminator (in around 1984) that had the ability to accomplish this using a ground balance discriminator. In fact, quote: "if a Compass metal detector cannot read 11" on a coin sized object in air, I (Keith Wills) did not modify that circuit at the factory". Keith Wills can now be found at "East Texas Metal detectors". He is the best detector repairman on the planet and was one of the chief techs at Compass Electronics before it closed down. He is one of the most important reaons why we now have such fine phase-shift, etc instruments available today. Before he re-engineered metal detectors it was (past tense) true that most detectors only got depth equal to width of detection. He changed the rules though.

Records show that in mild to medium soils the Naut II's get 4 out of 5 Civil War hunts while the Tejon got 1 out of 5.

The air depth on the Tejon with 8X9" coil was 14" for a nickel, 13" for an 8" Compass R&C, 11" for my Fisher cz-70 w/ 8" coil. The Tejon and Minelabs sucked in bad ground though. REALLY sucked. I sold them both.

Hope this helps.

LL
 

LuckyLarry said:
A metal detector with an 8" coil normally radiates an electromagnetic field in a rather billowed configuration (with cancer sores here and there) both on the top of the coil and on the bottom too. In normal instances though the image when viewing iron filings dropped on top of a piece of paper over the side of the coil reveals a weird pattern somewhat resembling two very large (each around 4 feet in circumference) radiated fields, back-to-back, with the negative voltage/EMF field on the top of the coil windings, and the positive voltage/EMF on the bottom of the coil windings. The field becomes wider and wider as the EMF field weakens radiating outward, much like waves do on water.

Now this means also that since the negative field is the weaker force (not to be confused with the "weak force", as in quantum mechanics) it will produce a lesser degree of useability and intensity than the positive field on the bottom side. The unuseable EMF for smaller items will still radiate a total field size of 8 feet + for a larger item. If in doubt, try the coil out on a car body or steel fence and you will quickly learn that there are more than even these two parameters that I just mentioned regarding total radiation fields. With some detectors though the outer field area crosses over each other as far as readability or detectability, but this is due to recover speed and many other factors, including voltage group clusters. This crossover of readability for small items is not as true with multi frequency detectors though. But of course multis only utilize one frequency at a time anyway, as most techs and all EE's already know.

In normal cases this all roughly equates to total use as is comprised of a voltage gradient of maximum useable voltage for small items extending outward from the side of the coil, roughly equating to slightly 20% lesser than the total area of the localized (useable, readable voltage) small item manageability from TOP of field to BOTTOM of field. This means that the search field is greater from top-to-bottom of useable EMF than it is from side-to-side. In other words the useable for (MOST) coin-sized objects field in taller than it is wide, by around 20%.

In short again, if a well-made detector has an 8" coil it normally has the ability to detect (in air, with zero interference) a coin-sized object often exceeding 10". This is not always true though, I had a Sov that although it worked as it should it still got only 10.5" (in air) with it's 10" coil and so did an SE.

Keith Wills is the first person who designed a discriminator (in around 1984) that had the ability to accomplish this using a ground balance discriminator. In fact, quote: "if a Compass metal detector cannot read 11" on a coin sized object in air, I (Keith Wills) did not modify that circuit at the factory". Keith Wills can now be found at "East Texas Metal detectors". He is the best detector repairman on the planet and was one of the chief techs at Compass Electronics before it closed down. He is one of the most important reaons why we now have such fine phase-shift, etc instruments available today. Before he re-engineered metal detectors it was (past tense) true that most detectors only got depth equal to width of detection. He changed the rules though.

Records show that in mild to medium soils the Naut II's get 4 out of 5 Civil War hunts while the Tejon got 1 out of 5.

The air depth on the Tejon with 8X9" coil was 14" for a nickel, 13" for an 8" Compass R&C, 11" for my Fisher cz-70 w/ 8" coil. The Tejon and Minelabs sucked in bad ground though. REALLY sucked. I sold them both.

Hope this helps.

LL

Yeah...What he said. :D

LuckyLarry...You always amaze me with the way you deliver technical info in a way it can be understood.

Great reply. :thumbsup:

Randy
 

So MD Dog was right about the Nautilus II being best :thumbsup:
 

:hello: Hi Goodguy, Long time no talk, how's life on the other side of charter membership ? ;D

I'm closing in on 3000 posts so i think I'm heading back out on a sabbatical. Only been back for a month and already getting tired. Well hope all's well with you and yours,TC and Happy hunting. 8)
 

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