Native American Lithic Pendant Rattlesnake Effigy

[jacobgosling]

Hi,

I recently purchased a Native American pendant (listed as a gorget) on ebay. I knew going in that the artifact could be faked or repro, but there was enough of the genuine about it that I decided to acquire it. At worst I've purchased a very well crafted fake and an attractive decorative piece.

Is there anyone here with some knowledge or experience with the subject of Native artifacts who might have an opinion on this piece? Authentic | Possibly Authentic | Fake

Seller's Picture included.

Thanks!
Jacob

 

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[Tdog]

The drilled hole may offer a clue. Need close-up pics of both sides of hole at different angles. Just an observation but seems strange that the hole would be right through the snake. BTW, welcome.

 

[jacobgosling]

Thank you very much for the expedient reply and welcome!

Here are some closeups of the holes. Front and back. If genuine, I believe the placement of the hole would be chosen in deference to balancing the object when worn around the neck.

Regards,

Jacob

 

[smokeythecat]

I saw that when it was on Ebay also but declined to bid on it. The hole did not look correct to me. Also, the back of it has been planed/shaved/gouged to reduce the thickness.

The lines on the carving are too even. After noticing these details, like I say, I declined to place a bid. I'd say about half the artifacts on Ebay are "new". It's figuring out which half is the problem.

 

[newnan man]

At the top of this forum page is a thread that deals with this very subject.

 

[smokeythecat]

I am certainly no expert, some of the stuff out there looks really good.

 

[jacobgosling]

As I said, I knew going in the item could be faked or repro. I didn't pay $10,000 for it, so I'll be satisfied to have a nice decorative piece. I'm new to ebay, but not naive. It isn't too difficult to spot the genuine Revolutionary War, Colonial and Native American items. It's not easy to fake authentic age and wear. And provenance is very important. If an Indian artifact came from a collection assembled in 1922, there's probably a better chance it's real.

There's something about my snake pendant that makes me reluctant to entirely dismiss the possibility of authenticity. I'll have a hands-on expert examine it and maybe perform some tests. Just to satisfy my own curiosity as to what it actually is: Native American or 'Made in China'.

But smokeythecat won't you be green with envy when the Antiques Roadshow guy tell me I possess the finest example of a late Hopewell Snake Effigy Pendant he's ever seen in 24 seasons of Antiques Roadshow, and estimates the value between $800,000 and 1.5 million!

And are you suggesting the nail from Jesus' cross that I paid 10 Rubles for isn't real? How dare you!

I'll have lots of other stuff to share on the forum. Some of it definitely real.

Kind regards,
Jacob

 

[jacobgosling]

Thanks newnan.

 

[smokeythecat]

Nope, won't turn green. I have everything else out there...

 

[Relicgrubber]

Let’s see a head on pictures of the hole with light behind it? In the first picture the hole looks to be done with a drill. Most authentic drilled pieces the hole is conical from both sides.

 

[Tnmountains]

If you have a microscope or fine loop look at the surface for sanding marks or score marks. My experience with polished stone is they would sand in one direction and then the other. Its amazing when you see it on a piece. Also the holes were usually drilled with a reed full of sand as an abrasive and you will see the step down marks in the hole.
I have several pics of dug rattlesnake shell gorgets I have not seen one on stone like that. Is that greenstone?
Hope it is real.

 

[antmike915]

Hi,

I recently purchased a Native American pendant (listed as a gorget) on ebay. I knew going in that the artifact could be faked or repro, but there was enough of the genuine about it that I decided to acquire it. At worst I've purchased a very well crafted fake and an attractive decorative piece.

Is there anyone here with some knowledge or experience with the subject of Native artifacts who might have an opinion on this piece? Authentic | Possibly Authentic | Fake

Seller's Picture included.

Thanks!
Jacob

View attachment 1838884

Braver than me, I wouldn't take the risk.

 

[joshuaream]

Since you asked for opinions, I'd guess it's not very old. The style is wrong, the workmanship is wrong, the material looks wrong; I can't really find one thing that's right about the piece.

There were a couple more pictures on the auction that show some redflags. The first one is the side profile, it looks like someone was trying to make a celt. You don't see many celts reworked into gorgets. The second one shows what looks like modern grinder work to me.

 

[IMAUDIGGER]

Why would someone want to hang something that heavy around their neck?

I would think some time would be spend thinning it out quite a bit more to lighten the weight.

 

[Toecutter]

Why would someone want to hang something that heavy around their neck?

I would think some time would be spend thinning it out quite a bit more to lighten the weight.

Same impression I got...

 

[DaveSmith]

I'm no stone expert, but have done considerable welding and grinding and the second picture on the right at the most narrow end of the scooped out portion looks just like the marks a grinding disc makes.

 

[monsterrack]

1st as Davesmith said there are modern tool marks in the scooped out spot. 2nd like Joshua said the shape and form is wrong. 3rd the lines are all the same width and you don't get that with stone and last the holes are not made right for either stone or cane drilled. JMO

 

[gunsil]

Ebay is surely the faker's friend!! Probably every category on the bay has fakes just waiting to take somebody for a ride.

 

[A2coins]

Also a ton of stuff people actually think are real. This is not a remark related to the OP I hope you piece is authentic You could take it to a professional or to a University or the like and have it looked at nothing better than having it in hand to look at up close.......Tommy

 

[DaveSmith]

And I thought this weekend I should have said the same as Tommy, there's nothing like holding it in your hand. Pictures can be good, but sometime they just don't show it as it really is.