Native American Birdstone. Authentic or Modern?

[Thefieldhunter]

Hello, I recently bought this green banded slate birdstone from an Indian artifact collector. He had said that it had been found in Randolph County, Indiana and had been purchased by Earl Townsend. I was wondering if I could get any information on if this birdstone appears to be authentic or real. I'll be taking it to the next artifact show here in Indiana to talk to other collectors about it. . Any input is appreciated. Thanks!

 

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[uniface]

Send it to Jon Dickinson. Prehistoric Artifacts Home Minimum 2 submissions @ $15/ea. John's word is law on these among collectors.

 

[Tdog]

Welcome. I wish you the best of luck with it. That type of artifact is among the most counterfeited in circulation--probably because they fetch such a hefty price!

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

FYI, always post pictures of all sides of an artifact if you want members opinions, holes as example only show one side, drill holes can tell a lot if you can see in them.

 

[Thefieldhunter]

I agree. The man that had sold me it is named Ron Ammerman. He was one of the curators and consultants for Dan Ripley's auction for a big portion of Earl Townsends collection. And from what I hear, they were really good friends. If I remember correctly from he had told me, is that this birdstone never went to auction. Another thing is, is that I couldn't find it in Earl Townsends birdstone book.

 

[Thefieldhunter]

I posted some pictures of the drill holes the best I could.

 

[Garscale]

Did you get a guarantee of authenticity from the seller? I hope it is good but there may be a reason it never went to auction.

 

[Thefieldhunter]

I do believe that Ron had actually obtained it from Earl Townsend himself and added it to his collection before some of his collection went to auction. I did not receive a guarantee of authenticity from him.

 

[Garscale]

I do believe that Ron had actually obtained it from Earl Townsend himself and added it to his collection before some of his collection went to auction. I did not receive a guarantee of authenticity from him.

Once again, I hope it is good however most of the high end Townsend collection has great provenance. Maybe that one slipped through the cracks but im doubtful.

 

[dognose]

I had spoken to Earl a number of times at Indiana CSASI shows since the early 80s until he stopped attending them frequently. There are a number of collector in the Indiana socity who were very close to Earl besides Ron. I too know Ron and saw him last at the Harold Rothrock Estate August 29, 2020 at Harold's farm. I also knew Harold.

Ron purchased relics as well as I did at Harold's sale.


Before sending it out to anyone for an opinion on being authentic I would contact Jeff Smith or Pat Mooney - See CSASI officers at Central States Archaeological Societies current officers

Jeff I believe spent a considerable amount of time with Earl.


I have heard stories over the last number of years that Earl did have some reproductions but I don't know for a fact that is true.

Most collectors who purchase relics, at one time or another, ends up with a non-authentic relic. Any relic purchaser who does not say this, I would be suspect of. This is my opinion, Just me.

I attended the 1st auction that Ron held for Earl back in the 90s held in New Castle Indiana. That was interesting.

All that said, it is common for non-authentic items to be given a fraudulent provenance from a deceased well known collector. Not saying Ron is doing this, its just something to keep in mind.

 

[dognose]

In case you want to read about Earl:
Earl C. Townsend Jr.
1914-2007
Central States Archaeological Societies obituary of Earl C. Townsend Jr.

Fun Fact
Did you know Earl was the first television announcer for the Indianapolis 500 Read section "Local live coverage"

 

[Tnmountains]

If Townsend had owned it I think it would be published or like DogNose said other collectors could/ would recognize it. He was the man when it came to birdstones. This is the guys collection fetched 1.2 million. Impressive.But he is right that big collections pick up some fakes along the way. Only natural when you amass so much.
Welcome to T-net!

 

[joshuaream]

Earl was active well after he published his book in the late 50's, and had lots of birdstones that didn't get published or were acquired from 1960 onward. What I don't recall is him having decent birdstones without his T-1234 catalog number or occasionally his signature. But I'm not an expert by any means on his collection. (Like Dognose and others, I met him, saw his collection, bought a couple of pieces at his auctions, etc. but once he stopped attending the shows I went to, I didn't see him or his collection again until the auctions.)

I've been wrong many times by passing on good relics, but stylistically I wouldn't have given it a second look if I saw it for sale online. Something looks a little wonky about the build.

 

[monsterrack]

1st let me say I'm no slate expert, but I do know slate is a soft type of material. In saying that from the picture's I don't see any wear signs where cord would have been tied, but I'm looking at a picture not in hand. I hope it is real, but the truth is there is a world of B.S. out there when it comes to artifacts. The more you collect of different items the more of a chance of getting a bad piece.

 

[dognose]

There are a few things I see which makes me suspect of this relic.


I am not stating this is an authentic relic, and I am not saying this is a non-authentic relic.


I am of the school that authentic cannot be determined from photos.


I also have to admit over the 54 years of hunting and collecting relics I have purchased non-authentic relics unknowingly. I have been duped and on a few occasions only after intense scrutiny under magnification and deep thought have I determined the proposed relic was fraudulent. Also let it be known that the biggest perpetrator of passing the fraudulent items was a person who I came to know for many years and I considered a friend. This person had basically targeted me as a mark of sorts.



But that's another story for a much larger post. Just to say I have been bitten and know the dog.


So I put no shame on those who have this cast upon them, and state they have been burned.



Concerning this bird stone:
I agree with monsterrack that the surface strikes me off. I cant put my finger on it. Possibly the way the brown mineralization appears too consistent over the surface.


The hold looks incorrect to me when I magnify the photo and crop away the other areas.


Look at the hole it appears to be counter sunk. (red arrows)


It also has what appears to be chatter marks from being drilled. (black arrow)







This photo shows what appears to be the intersection of the basal hole and the front hole. I think this is looking in from the birds head point of view, the drill hole from the base looks odd to e.

however the dark shadow area looks like an area where the area was drilled backed off and when in further to intersect. Again in the upper area chatter type marks appear to be visible.
This may be a factor of the light casting odd shadows, one cant really tell from photos.


I am of the school on questionable relics, that if I have to question it, or wonder too long, I pass on them.

 

[Tdog]

Look at the hole it appears to be counter sunk. (red arrows)


It also has what appears to be chatter marks from being drilled. (black arrow)


View attachment 1912449

Yes it does. I noticed that particular hole looked incorrect as well.

 

[marion moore]

I no expert but the c'bore hole looks like they use a counter bored drill bit, hard to do that with out one. Just a guess. Marion

 

[outlaws15]

Great post for me since I know nothing about ancient or modern ways of drilling. I know how to drill a hole. But not the signs they leave behind.
I'm also not very good with cropping pictures or putting arrows on them so this is a very appreciative post. Maybe dognose (please) you can put up a picture of this piece with one you know to be authentic and point out the differences.
Thanks to all for the information you share

There are a few things I see which makes me suspect of this relic.


I am not stating this is an authentic relic, and I am not saying this is a non-authentic relic.


I am of the school that authentic cannot be determined from photos.


I also have to admit over the 54 years of hunting and collecting relics I have purchased non-authentic relics unknowingly. I have been duped and on a few occasions only after intense scrutiny under magnification and deep thought have I determined the proposed relic was fraudulent. Also let it be known that the biggest perpetrator of passing the fraudulent items was a person who I came to know for many years and I considered a friend. This person had basically targeted me as a mark of sorts.



But that's another story for a much larger post. Just to say I have been bitten and know the dog.


So I put no shame on those who have this cast upon them, and state they have been burned.



Concerning this bird stone:
I agree with monsterrack that the surface strikes me off. I cant put my finger on it. Possibly the way the brown mineralization appears too consistent over the surface.
View attachment 1912454

The hold looks incorrect to me when I magnify the photo and crop away the other areas.


Look at the hole it appears to be counter sunk. (red arrows)


It also has what appears to be chatter marks from being drilled. (black arrow)


View attachment 1912449




This photo shows what appears to be the intersection of the basal hole and the front hole. I think this is looking in from the birds head point of view, the drill hole from the base looks odd to e.
View attachment 1912451
however the dark shadow area looks like an area where the area was drilled backed off and when in further to intersect. Again in the upper area chatter type marks appear to be visible.
This may be a factor of the light casting odd shadows, one cant really tell from photos.
View attachment 1912452

I am of the school on questionable relics, that if I have to question it, or wonder too long, I pass on them.

 

[unclemac]

I just can't buy artifacts ... especially rarer ones ... i must be from Missouri ...

 

[southfork]

So that I'm clear I know nothing about these types of artifacts . But the mineral deposits in the drilled holes looks applied / faked ?