Mystery letters on shipwreck remains?

[Crow]

Hello to all the shipwreck hunters out there.

I need to pick some of your brains if I may? Grin

Does anyone have an idea on what the word or letters JAT might mean?

And the Roman numerals on a plank in this order FICXXXVIII?

The vessel the plank was from is believed to be an East Indiaman of the 1850'S

Could this be part of Plimsoll line on the original bow section of the vessel or some thing else?

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Crow

 

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[Mackaydon]

Crow:
Last time I checked there is no "F" Roman numeral; only I, V, X, L, C, D and M.

Also the vessel lost in the 1850s couldn't be displaying a Plimsoll mark since that mark didn't come into existence until 1876--and then only (actually) required on British vessels after 1894. The law of the mark was later (1906) applied to foreign vessels visiting a British port. The States didn't adopt the idea until 1929 and in 1930 the requirement became part of international agreement.
You may wish to recheck the "F" and see if it might be another letter.
Don....

 

[Crow]

Hello Mackaydon

Thank you for your reply it helps me think that the Roman numerals or letters might be for something else.

crow

 

[Mackaydon]

Crow:
Do you care to post pics of the "JAT" and the "Roman" numerals?
What makes you think the wreck is an East Indianman (if you don't mind)?
Don........

 

[treasurediver]

As Mackaydon points out, the Plimsoll numbers are from a later date.
However, it seems that ships of much earlier time used water line markers. I found roman numerals made out of lead sheeting, corresponding the the draft of the vessel, several times on Dutch as well as English vessels shipwrecked from 1627, 1648 and 1700.
These numerals went only as high as the draft of the vessel.

On boxes and chests of cargo, very often there were roman numerals and letters. These seem to be numbers corresponding to the registry in the cargo manifest. A very nice example are the roman numerals on the Atocha silver bars. Each silver bar had it's number stamped on and registered in the cargo manifest.

What are the dimensions of the plank?

Treasurediver

 

[Mackaydon]

Treasurediver:

Right you are!

The first official loading regulations are thought to date back to maritime legislation originating with the kingdom of Crete in 2,500 BC when vessels were required to pass loading and maintenance inspections. Roman sea regulations also contained similar regulations.

In the Middle Ages the Venetian Republic, the city of Genoa and the Hanseatic league required ships to load to a load line.

The original "Plimsoll Mark" was a circle with a horizontal line through it to show the maximum draft of a ship. Additional marks have been added over the years, allowing for different water densities and expected sea conditions. For example: W – Winter Temperate Seawater and WNA – Winter North Atlantic.

Letters (usually only two) may also appear to the sides of the mark indicating the classification society that has surveyed the vessel's load line.

Unfortunately, I haven't found any 'JAT' mark that refers to a waterline mark.

I'm still interested in learning (and seeing!) what was found to suggest the ship was an East Indianman from the 1850s.

Don.... (with help from Wikipedia)

 

[Crow]

Hello Mackaydon and Treasurediver

Thank you again for your very interesting replies, they have been very very helpful. I cannot thank you enough.

Treasurediver: Your point about the Roman numerals On boxes and chests of cargo, very often there were roman numerals and letters. These seem to be numbers corresponding to the registry in the cargo manifest. Is a very good point. Have you ever seen a photograph in your travels or research of what these cargo crates could look like, size wise? I mean was these shipping crates in a standard size or made to order for each voyage depending on the cargo?

Mackaydon: In answer to your question about seeing a photograph of the letters and Roman numeral unfortunately there is no photo that I know of in existence. The Story of wreckage with the following Numerals in my first posting was written in handwritten letter with an account of how the items were found at the turn of last century. Unfortunately for us we do not know in what context the Letters or numerals represent?

It was from this document and and another letter from another independent source. Lead to the later discovery of wreckage such as cooking items such as four pronged fork, Anthracite coal, Copper sheeting and nails from the hull and small timber samples.

The timber was examined by a dendrologist, The cutlery had manufacturers mark and copper sample showed it was an certain copper alloy experimented with in the early 19th century. Plus some of the sheeting had the manufacturers stamp on it. Copper thickness was developed into 3 sizes in the Early 19th century because the rate of ware or deterioration is different on different parts of the ships hull. From the curvature of the sheets we can calculate the approximate size of the vessel. Thus giving an approximate idea of the tonnage.

All evidence pointed to a British Built vessel with imported teak and Iron composite construction and a very close date to what we were searching for. We obtained from a 19th Century Marine Specialist that came to a similar conclusion. And at this stage we are consulting another Marine archeologist just to confirm as much as possible our findings.

Our preliminary findings have discovered the possible impact zone and the extent of the debris field. However like always the research is always ongoing.

Regards Crow

 

[Mackaydon]

Crow:
Good luck on your continuing research and please keep us apprised of your progress.
Don........

 

[ivan salis]

I is 1
V is 5
X is 10
L is 50
C is 100
D is 500
M is 1000
exsample
ICXXXVIII-( I = 1 -- C=100 +XXX=30+V=5+III=3) which means -- 1-138

 

[Crow]

Hello ivan salis

Thank you for that is a very good observation you have made too!

Perhaps the numbers was a batch number on shipping crate?

Crow

 

[ivan salis]

F 1 -138 -- could be stowage --forward compartment --1 of 138 --or a lot ID number to account for it on the manifest-- cargo wize -- box F 1 -138 belongs to ----? upon delivery.

 

[DCMatt]

Hello to all the shipwreck hunters out there.

I need to pick some of your brains if I may? Grin

Does anyone have an idea on what the word or letters JAT might mean?

And the Roman numerals on a plank in this order FICXXXVIII?

The vessel the plank was from is believed to be an East Indiaman of the 1850'S

Could this be part of Plimsoll line on the original bow section of the vessel or some thing else?

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Crow

No sure if this helps but the Jat or Jat people are an ethnic group in Northern India.

DCMatt

 

[Crow]

Hello DCMatt

That is also very interesting because if the vessel is the vessel I suspect she is? That vessel on its voyage called in at a port in India during its voyage.

Thanks again for the interesting comments.

Crow