My most unexpected finds of 2014. WWII related?

[Helix]

UPDATE My most unexpected finds of 2014. WWII related? .

Today I decided to explore yet another property that goes back to my 1870s map. Very over grown with weeds and grass, chest high. So I decided to work an area in the trees were the grass was not so bad. I was finding and seeing lots of modern spent 12 gage cartridges and other small arm brass everywhere. So I was thinking this land must of been a shooting range up until recently. So I am going a long and dig a shredded 50 cal. casing. OK never dug one of those before. Then not 20' later on top of the ground is what looks to be a 37mm casing that looks to have exploded in a fire or something?? Primer also never looks to have been used. Very strange. Now I am thinking possibly this was a military WWII shooting range then after the war became a public range?? I have no clue. The 50 cal. I can see but a 37mm I have trouble with that one. My Question is can anyone tell me why they are shredded like they are? They clearly were not hit by a lawn mower or something like that. Also can anyone give me any info by the back marks? The large says 37 so I guessed 37mm. Thanks in advance. Primer on the 50 also looks unused?

 

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[Helix]

I know its not very old history but there is some here. Friend of mine was thinking. It could of been a place after WWII were munitions were destroyed?? Not a Ideal place I want to be detecting. Possibly Cannonballguy has a friend who knows about modern ordnance? Until I get a couple opinions from others who know there stuff with these matters, its safe to say I won't be going back to this site.

 

[Helix]

Crickets here............ I didn't want to mention this but this is from a Park. Just acquired a few years ago. I call the authorities and my metal detecting days will be over. On the other hand I could be doing the right thing and might save some future mdrs life. If it is a WWII range witch is un safe, if one is finding 37 mm rounds? Any advice? What do I do..

 

[flatbutton]

I'm not an expert, But my first thought is 37 is the date of mfg. I may be totally wrong and I'm sure someone here will chime in and give you a spot on ID. Cool stuff man!

 

[Goldiver]

The shredded casings are usually due to fire and the heat igniting the powder. The one marked 37 and P413 is German 8mm Mauser made in 1937 apparently the S* designation means it was a spotting round. Here is a link to a cutaway on the same cartridge. Interesting finds!

German 8mm B-Patrone Cutaway - AR15.Com Archive

Steve

 

[NOLA_Ken]

Those are definitely burned shells that have exploded from a fire. The last one is actually missing the outer cap of the primer. It looks a bit large to be a .50 though, can you get accurate measurements of it and the artillery shell? I think the artillery shell is English made, and I'll look up the head stamp in a bit, I'll need to know the base diameter to more accurately ID it.

 

[jeff of pa]

All I can say is Interesting at this point.
the fact they look Exploded from the inside suggests, at least to me, it's probably
someones idea of clean fill, and was most likely brought in to level the area off,
& would go with that opinion at least unless you can find a military history of the site.

& I would have to agree with the "Mums the word" attitude Lest you want
the place put off limits to you.

Perhaps if you were in a 3rd world country, that was used as a battle ground, I may feel different

 

[NOLA_Ken]

The last one resembles a Russian 14.5mm shell to confirm I need measurements of the base, and the shell just above the base.

The double stars is throwing me off a bit, I'll research it more though...

 

[Helix]

Ok thanks... all this is safe? Im not going to blow my face off cleaning these items

Also the size with a Mico meter on the shells.... Ill get back with the info I a few days.. Thanks for all the help. No danger lets find some more.

 

[NOLA_Ken]

Those are perfectly safe to handle, the arty shell has an un popped primer, and while it's highly unlikely to have any life left in it,(having been burnt AND buried) if you have any worries, spray some wd40 or some similar penetrating oil into it and let it soak in, that completely kills primers.

Note: If while digging in that area you happen to come across large (bigger than .50cal) projectiles, be especially careful. live fused projectiles can be ejected in a fire when the shell bursts and not detonate themselves. These can be EXTREMELY dangerous to handle, and if you're not familiar with correct handling, they should be left to people trained in their disposal. I'd recommend doing a bit of research on modern (post 1900) fused rounds so that you'll know how to recognize them if you happen across one there. Knowing the difference between explosive rounds and solid shot can save your life. Not trying to scare you off your spot, just feel that this is important information to have if there is even the slightest chance of uncovering live ordinance.

 

[jeff of pa]

Ok thanks... all this is safe? Im not going to blow my face off cleaning these items

Also the size with a Mico meter on the shells.... Ill get back with the info I a few days.. Thanks for all the help. No danger lets find some more.

Yea They all look safe to Me.

Even If they had the Powder & Lead still connected,
it would take a concentrated effort to get them to explode .

 

[vpnavy]

Nice! Thanks for sharing...

 

[Helix]

My research tells me the last shell is a Anti Tank round. Very interesting, it will make a good paper weight at the least.

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

Helix contacted me, asking whether his finds are safe. Yes... because what you've found so far is empty powder-casings. As other posters have already said, if you find an intact artillery projectile (not just its empty brass casing) at that WW2-era spot, it can still be dangerous.

I should mention, some artillery projectiles are nothing but solid metal all the way through, meaning, not hollow to contain explosive material. If you do find a bigger-than-.50-caliber (1/2" in diameter) projectile at that spot, post photos of it in T-Net's "What Is It?" forum so we can tell you whether it is a harmless Solid-Shot or a hollow explosive projectile.

 

[Helix]

Thanks for all the help everyone. I would rather be safe then sorry with something like this. I sure will watch out and treat every dig at this site as if it were the projectile to the larger round. I am going to assume it is around somewhere. Yes if I find anything larger then a .50 I will be sure and post it under "what is it". I apologize if this is going into the realm of the "What is it forum". Here are the sizes of the large shell. First pic is of the base not the very bottom rim. Second is of the very bottom rim. Thats 47.19 Third pic is of the one I thought was a .50 cal. It is the same size, no bottom rim. Thanks again everyone, especially on the safety aspect.



Just did a little research and read that a 42mm or 1.650" was or is from a 2pd gun. I assume it is safe to say that is what I have found. Hotchkiss looks to have made 42mm Naval guns in the 1930. Possibly that what I have or is this older?

 

[NOLA_Ken]

I'm having trouble locating exact measurements right now, but I believe the shell could be an English manufactured 37 mm. it would have been a necked case like a rifle bullet.

 

[Helix]

I'm having trouble locating exact measurements right now, but I believe the shell could be an English manufactured 37 mm. it would have been a necked case like a rifle bullet.

I no zero about large caliber rounds like this but I see your point on it having a necked case like a rifle bullet. Makes sense to me it being a 37mm. Well I figure if it was tossed in a fire and exploded at this site I would imagine the projectile could not have been thrown to far. ? If I can find it that would sure tell the tail. Also I figured it was safe but you come home with something like this and next thing you know others start getting very concerned. If I find the projectile it is going to stay in the barn till it is confirmed safe. LOL! Any other input is welcome. Thanks again for the help!

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

Helix wrote:
> I know zero about large caliber rounds like this [...]

Helix, if you are interested in getting some Education on that subject (and their casings), start reading here:
An Introduction To Collecting Artillery Shells And Shell Casings - International Ammunition Association

It's about 1880s-to-today artillery projectiles, so there's no civil war ones there, but it covers the era of brass artillery projectile powder-casings you are finding.

 

[Helix]

Helix wrote:
> I know zero about large caliber rounds like this [...]

Helix, if you are interested in getting some Education on that subject (and their casings), start reading here:
An Introduction To Collecting Artillery Shells And Shell Casings - International Ammunition Association

It's about 1880s-to-today artillery projectiles, so there's no civil war ones there, but it covers the era of brass artillery projectile powder-casings you are finding.

Thanks CannonballGuy I appreciate the info. I read the article and it basically talks about American made ammunition. Some of rounds in article I sure don't want to run into. I was able to id the type of casings I have. My larger find having a rimmed casing and the smaller being a rimless casing. Still I was unable to make any sense from the marks on the bottom of the shell from what I read. Leads me to think these are all foreign, like Ken and others stated. Also did a little research on this site and as far as I can tell it was just your average farm 60 or so years ago. Just a guess but possibly these rounds were brought back from WWII and at some point in time someone decided to destroy or deactivate them? Very interesting to say the least. Definitely these have to be the most serious finds I have ever made. Seeing as there could be even the slightest chance of a exploding projectile laying about. I suppose its is no dangerous then digging a cannonball at a CW site.