My Awful Experience With Midwest Refineries

[Kamchi]

So, I sent "Midwest Refineries" 14.3g of 14k gold. I used a calculator and everything to determine the value at the market price they received and declared at, $2,174 per troy ounce of pure gold. Obviously, 14k is not pure gold, my pieces were 585 and "ZRW" marked, so legitimate pieces. Take that 14.3g and multiply it by .585 because only 58.5% of it is pure gold. You are left with 8.37g of pure gold at a market price of $2,174 per troy ounce. That comes out to be valued at $585.03. Of course, "Midwest Refineries" have to make money, so they take 5%. That should leave me with $555.78.

Now, what I actually got,
I received a check for only $475, $110.03 less than its actual value and $80.78 less than I should have got after their 5% fee. Overall, I lost 19%. I was under the impression it would be 5%, what a shock I got!

Gary (the owner of "Midwest Refineries") reasonings:
-Well, although your gold was marked as "585," 58.5% pure gold, it was only 54% pure
-Then once we found out the purity, we lost 4% of it during the melting process

I will never use them again and heed this warning because you will lose a lot of money!

-I shipped my gold to them on 03/08/24, it arrived on 03/11/24, my check arrived on 03/15/24.
-The "market price" declaration was correct and done so "in good faith," ($2,174 per troy ounce of pure gold on the date of which they received it)
-The website falsely advertises you only lose 5%, I lost 19%, from my overall gold's value.
-The purity assessment and mass loss during melting is not corroborated in any credible way. It is merely stated by him and you're supposed to take his word.

I feel as if I was scammed and baited by "false advertisement." I would like the remainder of the money I'm owed or for verifiable evidence to prove his valuation, otherwise. The company should also have to mention these "apparent" other ways in which your valuation will go down on their website.

A little extra irony,
14.31g of 14k gold or 0.46 of a troy ounce, 4% of that was lost from melting, that decreases the weight down to 13.74g of 14k gold. Now, that 14k gold isn't actually 58.5% pure gold, it is only 54% pure gold. That leaves me with 7.42g of pure gold. Their fee is 5%, so now I'm left with 7.05g of pure gold. Considering the $2,174 troy ounce price. When you do the math I should have received $492.76. I only received $475. Assuming he is not lying at all and I trust his word 100%, he still owes me $17.76

 

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[DizzyDigger]

If you're unhappy with the end results, then it would probably be best if you used a different place to sell your gold to.

So, you just got a check, but no itemized statement showing the details of the transaction?

 

[Kamchi]

If you're unhappy with the end results, then it would probably be best if you used a different place to sell your gold to.

So, you just got a check, but no itemized statement showing the details of the transaction?

I most certainly won't be using them again and this is what I received

 

[FreeBirdTim]

So they "lost" 4% of the gold and it's your loss? Doesn't seem right to me...

 

[Kamchi]

So they "lost" 4% of the gold and it's your loss? Doesn't seem right to me...

Correct, I submitted a complaint with the BBB. THANK GOODNESS I did not send them $3,000-$4,000 in gold otherwise a near 20% expectation of loss, ouch. They paid me outright as well so they didn't even melt my gold or anything, they just assumed

 

[tamrock]

I've recently been selling my pm's to a local guy. I've read that I could get more by mailing it to these refineries companies, but I don't have to pack and pay shipping. My guy gives me cash and I really favor these blind transactions. I generally get 20% less on silver and 15% less on gold. Even with that the margin I'm making is pretty darn good. I did read some of the online reviews on Midwest and even saw yours. One review was saying they could've done better on eBay. It's been awhile, but I've sold a fair amount of gold and silver jewelry on eBay and was pretty satisfied, because buyers were paying more for the jewelry that any scrap buyer would. This was because I was offering a piece of jewelry made by a notable maker or it was simply an attractive piece. People were paying higher for the name and appearance on the jewelry, not the value in pm's.

 

[opalboy]

I sell to buyers that claim they pay 98% for gold, they have XRf guns, they melt it into a blob and test it basically while you wait. I think the best I’ve gotten back is in the low 90’s, usually high 80’s. Sending to a refinery got about the same results, but they can remove stones. if you want the 98% you have to sell them an assayed bar or coin. I had a buyer come to our shop that payed 85%, I asked about him paying 98%, he said “ do you want to be disappointed now, or disappointed later?”
it’s always disappointing!

 

[Hunter1805]

i have been involved with a major smelter and they also have stories to tell. Some items marked 14K and 18K and 10 K may be marked but they are shy on the marked weight. So Let say I send in 20 dwt. of gold. I have 10K 14K and 18K rings. They (smelter) really don't care what you have inventoried but with the pour. You are given a customer number. You whole package in dumped into a crucible and melted... Your gold and what makes up your gold is poured into a mold. Now you have a small ingot of gold mix, copper, gold, nickel, platinum with your inventory number marked on the bar of your material. Remember nobody cares what your inventory showed like 10K 14K or 18K. Now your bar is drilled and the drill turnings are placed into another smaller crucible and melted. Now your BB size pellet in placed into an index machine with many other customers. Each customer has their own number the same number that was given upon your order coming through the door. Now the index machine (That is what I call it) x-rays your order and all the other orders placed into the machine.. The paper read out for your order may come out like this..... gold 30 %, copper, 25%, silver 10%, platinum 1%, nickel 34%. by weight. Your are then paid on your gold ONLY ...... The smelter keeps the rest of the metals as a gift. Now after smelting lets 200 pours from different customers lets say 500 ounces. all the small bars from the 200 customers are melted and then poured into a very large mold. The smelter now has a 500 ounce bar that he drills 3 or 4 holes into it and collects the turnings and melts them. Again those turnings are placed in the
x ray machine and the reading may indicate . 55% gold 25% nickel 20 percent copper, 5 % platinum. He just assayed his 500 ounce bar that is now shipped to the end user. The end user does the same, drills holes and collects turnings of the 500 ounce bar. The smelter is paid on all metals .... Platinum, copper ect ... that you don't get paid on....... Once the results are matched the smelter is paid by the end user.

 

[Kamchi]

i have been involved with a major smelter and they also have stories to tell. Some items marked 14K and 18K and 10 K may be marked but they are shy on the marked weight. So Let say I send in 20 dwt. of gold. I have 10K 14K and 18K rings. They (smelter) really don't care what you have inventoried but with the pour. You are given a customer number. You whole package in dumped into a crucible and melted... Your gold and what makes up your gold is poured into a mold. Now you have a small ingot of gold mix, copper, gold, nickel, platinum with your inventory number marked on the bar of your material. Remember nobody cares what your inventory showed like 10K 14K or 18K. Now your bar is drilled and the drill turnings are placed into another smaller crucible and melted. Now your BB size pellet in placed into an index machine with many other customers. Each customer has their own number the same number that was given upon your order coming through the door. Now the index machine (That is what I call it) x-rays your order and all the other orders placed into the machine.. The paper read out for your order may come out like this..... gold 30 %, copper, 25%, silver 10%, platinum 1%, nickel 34%. by weight. Your are then paid on your gold ONLY ...... The smelter keeps the rest of the metals as a gift. Now after smelting lets 200 pours from different customers lets say 500 ounces. all the small bars from the 200 customers are melted and then poured into a very large mold. The smelter now has a 500 ounce bar that he drills 3 or 4 holes into it and collects the turnings and melts them. Again those turnings are placed in the
x ray machine and the reading may indicate . 55% gold 25% nickel 20 percent copper, 5 % platinum. He just assayed his 500 ounce bar that is now shipped to the end user. The end user does the same, drills holes and collects turnings of the 500 ounce bar. The smelter is paid on all metals .... Platinum, copper ect ... that you don't get paid on....... Once the results are matched the smelter is paid by the end user.

I just kind of wish there was some proof other than "just take my word." He also bought mine outright and just assumed all of this based on averages with past customers. Of course he also gives me as low as he can in that range, then when I do the math, on his terms, I am still shorted money. Very much not a good experience and I will probably liquidate all my precious metals. Even if prices go up, you will lose all your profit due to the industry being like this and everyone trying to pull a fast one on each other. Thanks

 

[Hunter1805]

I just kind of wish there was some proof other than "just take my word." He also bought mine outright and just assumed all of this based on averages with past customers. Of course he also gives me as low as he can in that range, then when I do the math, on his terms, I am still shorted money. Very much not a good experience and I will probably liquidate all my precious metals. Even if prices go up, you will lose all your profit due to the industry being like this and everyone trying to pull a fast one on each other. Thanks

you can ask for the assays paperwork... I like the smelter who does it while you wait ,,,,,, Eleamental metals does it as you wait... my guy did 30-35 ounces of gold every day... Spent many hours watching them... NO one cares about your order when other customers are dealing in 30-40 ounces per day. of gold...But ask them for the Index readout that pertains to your order .. They have it so ask and see what they say.... First ask for your order number . Then ask for the paper work for your order. .....THEY HAVE It and you want to see it... Order number first the backup paperwork second...

 

[ConceptualizedNetherlandr]

Comparing your OP to the document, they claim to have recovered half the weight of the item in gold. 23/46. <br/><br/>

Had it been exactly 14K gold ( there is some variance ) it would have been 58.33% gold, or .2683 troy.<br/><br/>

So their claim seems to be your item was less than 86% of as marked or they lost 14% of it, or some combination. But fact is they never actually lost gold at the end of the day. If it stuck to a crucible or some such you can be damn sure then get all that back later. If they claim to not be doing that I'll pay them the shipping to send me all of them once a month, even if I need to pick it up with a truck. <br/><br/>

If you item had been as marked $583.28 would have been spot value. Their use of 'payable' @95% would indicate if things went perfect you should have received $554.12.<br/><br/>

All of their supposed 'losses' are a part of doing biz and should come out of their margin. <br/><br/>

Based on their payable and the spot that calculates to $476.11 so it looks like they again rounded this in their favor. If your item was exactly as marked they took 19% off spot.<br/><br/>

And they get the remaining metals as more profit on top of it all.<br/><br/>

Did you do any testing on it?<br/><br/>


Odd that they don't report to more significant digits, that is real >$2 on 0.001 troy. probably all the rounding goes in their favor on average. How many times do they round things? Easy enough to weight to the hundredth of gram rather than of a troy. they can do their math on the $ ( big number) with great precision rather than rounding the weight ( small number) . they should use consistent significant digits on the weights.<br/><br/>

Notice that they used an additional significant digit in their payable ( because if they rounded it like the other troy numbers they would have had to pay you more) That seems crooked. <br/><br/>

They have a right to make $ but they should be honest and transparent about it. <br/><br/>

I say they are crooks. You can print this out and send it to them

 

[Oregon Viking]

I sell to a local mining store and they pay great! Especially well for nuggets.

 

[Johnnybravo300]

The refiners are famous for skimming and claiming "lost" gold.
Lost right into their pocket. Happens everyday.