Musket Side Plate

[deedubs]

What is the significance of the marks that are stamped on the underside of this side plate.. Also any info on the the type and age of the gun would be appreciated.

 

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[NHBandit]

Looks like the British broad arrow proof mark. I have a similar piece that was identified as being from a Brown Bess musket but mine didn't have the little round knob on the end. There were variations from first model,, second model, etc. Sideplates Revolutionary war period. Where did you find it ?

 

[BosnMate]

It's a broken Brown Bess side plate. The British infantry were armed with the Brown Bess during the Revolution. The Mexican Infantry at the Alamo were also armed with the Brown Bess. The Alamo I think was 1836.

 

[deedubs]

Cool, thanks for all the info. I'm still curious about the stamped marks on the underside, isn't the proof mark normally stamped so that it visible? I get the broad arrow but I'm wondering about the "H" & the "3" . I've found several side plates in the past and they were all unmarked. Just curious....

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

There would not be a proof mark on a side-plate. Those are on the barrel. The sideplate would have contractor and pattern marks. The Tower farmed out a lot of work to "cottage" producers. The broadarrow is British military property, the "H" probably designates the contractor and the "3" would be the pattern/mold that was used to produce the part. If they weren't fitting properly they'd know to change or replace mold three. It's a pain in the butt aligning the tapped & threaded holes in the lockplate with the holes in the stock and having them end up in line with the holes in the sideplate when it comes time to assemble the musket. And the shape of the sideplate has to fit the mortise cut by the stockmaker for it to drop into.

The British used a Pattern Room. They kept formally accepted examples of arms and parts, and gauges and jigs, that contractors could borrow for measurements.

 

[deedubs]

Wow, thank you so much Charlie P..... it's this kind of information that makes these finds so much more interesting! That's great!!!!

 

[DCMatt]

Parts were also marked by gunsmiths so the matched set would stay together. Guns of this era did not have interchangable parts so, when disassembled for repair or maintenance, all the same parts had to back on the same gun. I have an 1849 East India Company musket and all the parts on it are marked with III on the inside.

DCMatt

 

[Dug]

Help Mr. Wizard

There would not be a proof mark on a side-plate. Those are on the barrel. The sideplate would have contractor and pattern marks. The Tower farmed out a lot of work to "cottage" producers. The broadarrow is British military property, the "H" probably designates the contractor and the "3" would be the pattern/mold that was used to produce the part. If they weren't fitting properly they'd know to change or replace mold three. It's a pain in the butt aligning the tapped & threaded holes in the lockplate with the holes in the stock and having them end up in line with the holes in the sideplate when it comes time to assemble the musket. And the shape of the sideplate has to fit the mortise cut by the stockmaker for it to drop into.

The British used a Pattern Room. They kept formally accepted examples of arms and parts, and gauges and jigs, that contractors could borrow for measurements.

Hi Charlie, I couldn't resist requesting your opinion of a piece of brass I found in my earlier days of digging since you are knowledgeable of markings. The item came out of an area where a lot of pewter buttons including a 71st, 52nd, and an RP were dug. This item is 7/8 of inch at it's widest. It is 1/8 inch thick and has a slight curve in it's design. I always assumed it was a part of some weapon but was not sure of the type. As seen, it has an arrow pointing to the right, then a D, then an arrow pointing down, then an S, then an arrow pointing left. Below the design looks like a four leaf flower. You recognize any of these markings?

 

[Iron Patch]

Hi Charlie, I couldn't resist requesting your opinion of a piece of brass I found in my earlier days of digging since you are knowledgeable of markings. The item came out of an area where a lot of pewter buttons including a 71st, 52nd, and an RP were dug. This item is 7/8 of inch at it's widest. It is 1/8 inch thick and has a slight curve in it's design. I always assumed it was a part of some weapon but was not sure of the type. As seen, it has an arrow pointing to the right, then a D, then an arrow pointing down, then an S, then an arrow pointing left. Below the design looks like a four leaf flower. You recognize any of these markings?View attachment 1114959

It's the top of a musket escutcheon. Most are not marked so anything that is, is interesting.

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

Iron Patch has it. I don't believe it is issue military but could well be militia. Civilian pieces had them as well. The American Troops were more like the Confederates of the Civil War - whatever they could get their hands on. And also a little more tolerant of "field art" by the musket owner. A British soldier would be flogged for altering his Bess.

Also called "Thumb Plates"

 

[BosnMate]

When in barracks muskets were stored in racks, and those marks could be the company and the number of the individual gun where it goes in the rack.

 

[Dug]

It's the top of a musket escutcheon. Most are not marked so anything that is, is interesting.

Thanks for the ID IP! Always wondered what it was.

 

[Professor of Engineering]

Very nice find! An excellent thread, I learned a lot about the subject.

 

[Richard22]

I got a brown bess sideplate with the broad arrow too. But mine got an I instead of an H. I would love to know what it means.

 

[Iron Patch]

I got a brown bess sideplate with the broad arrow too. But mine got an I instead of an H. I would love to know what it means.

View attachment 1241113

Looks like it's just a wide H.