MSHA authority over patented mines

M

Mountaineer2020

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Jul 5, 2020
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So I'm trying to stay within the law but with the minimum amount of cost and interference possible. If you own a patented mining claim and have no employees just you mining it... Are you subject to MSHA inspections and rules? I want to do everything safely and environmentally responsibly but I don't wan't to read the 1,000+ page MSHA rules and regs and get fined for something like not having a mens and womens restroom onsite. Regulated enough under motor carrier and those guys LOVE giving tickets for "non-compliance". The milling operation is visible from the road so it's not like I can stealth mine. My hope is as long as there are not employees I am responsible for my own health and safety. I couldn't find a clear answer on the net but everything seemed to reference employees and contractors working on and in mines.
 

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Evertime I take my annual 8hr refresher they asked this question of us all. When is MSHA required action over your operation. The instructor then just tells us and he's always said. "When your operation enters commerce" is when they have jurisdiction over what you're doing. You and your buddies can dig all you want as long as your not selling what you're mining is the way I understand what he says. MSHA has all you need to know online they always remind us also.
https://www.msha.gov/msha-and-osha-memorandum
 

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A. A mine is a mine.

B. It is a ming claim that was patented. Not really a "patented mining claim". Funny thing about patenting a claim it then just becomes property not a "mining claim".
You will fall under every kind of jurisdiction there is and actually lose most/all of the teeth federal mining law provides for miners on federal claims. There are a lot of people who own a "patented mining claim" that only own surface rights with an original title holder having the mineral rights. Not much of a "mining claim" anymore at that point.

C. YES!
 

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BlasterJ said:
No employees should in theory get you out of having to have OSHA inspections.
Click to expand...

I think you're right Blaster. So I checked the link Tamrock provided and my take away is this:

1. The Federal Mine Safety and Health Act of 1977, Pub. L. 91-173 as amended by Pub. L. 95-164 (Mine Act), authorizes the Secretary of Labor to promulgate and enforce safety and health standards regarding working conditions of employees engaged in underground and surface mineral extraction (mining), related operations, and preparation and milling of the minerals extracted.

The way I read that unless I have employees MSHA and OSHA don't need to go through the hassle of inspecting my mine for safety. I save them time and us tax dollars! WIN WIN. I'll double check on this with a few more authorities since there seems to be differing opinions.

Ya patented mining claims are fee simple property with the rights or not depending on whether someone excluded mineral rights in the past. That's why a title report is done before buying to determine if you have some of the property rights or all of them. The beauty of a patented claim is you don't need a POO to build a road or use heavy equipment. There aren't environmental studies to see if this could possibly be a habitat for the Canadian Lynx that take years to complete. Mining claims on federal land are great if someone has taken the time to go through the processes to get permission to use something besides a pan and pick and donkey.
 

tamrock said:
Evertime I take my annual 8hr refresher they asked this question of us all. When is MSHA required action over your operation. The instructor then just tells us and he's always said. "When your operation enters commerce" is when they have jurisdiction over what you're doing. You and your buddies can dig all you want as long as your not selling what you're mining is the way I understand what he says. MSHA has all you need to know online they always remind us also.
https://www.msha.gov/msha-and-osha-memorandum
Click to expand...

So I followed your link and found out... You're probably right. I say probably because I was a "C" student in boundary and survey law. Not my best subject. From the 1977 Mine Act.
MINES SUBJECT TO ACT
SEC. 4 [§ 803]. Each coal or other mine, the products of which
enter commerce, or the operations or products of which affect
commerce, and each operator of such mine, and every miner in such
mine shall be subject to the provisions of this Act.
Thank you Tamrock
 

several things not being addresses and or ignored.

pretty much every county does have regulations in regards to mining. putting in roads. air quality water quality etc.

not having to file a P.O.O is cool and all but, you will be within the scope of some law requiring certain thing.

An employee is going to be considered anyone digging...partner, kid down the road, volunteer.

You start mining trying to make a profit get equipment involved. Go under ground any of it and you will have to be MSHA compliant.

Dude in my county tried to get away with what you propose..

He's on the hook for millions. Cause he tried to do it "as cheap as possible"
 

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I'm signed up for the MSHA training class in April. Read enough of the 1977 mining act to see that a fine for a violation is $70,000. You can have multiple violations so ya.... that could take the fun right out of mining. Initial plan is to sample outcrops with a mini-excavator and rock hammer, assay/pan and try to find something worth mining. I'll ask MSHA if that puts me in their scope.
 

There's precedent both ways. Precedent in my region is that an MSHA inspector was threatened with arrest for criminal trespass for attempting to inspect a mine that was not producing material involved in commerce. They haven't been back.
 

Mountaineer2020 said:
I'm signed up for the MSHA training class in April. Read enough of the 1977 mining act to see that a fine for a violation is $70,000. You can have multiple violations so ya.... that could take the fun right out of mining. Initial plan is to sample outcrops with a mini-excavator and rock hammer, assay/pan and try to find something worth mining. I'll ask MSHA if that puts me in their scope.
Click to expand...

That might put you in scope of needing a "Notice of Intent to Mine" if it's USFS or BLM land. But that type of activity usually doesn't result in product being taken out to actually market commercially.
 

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In common parlace: yes, "a mine is a mine. Under federal law. Not quite. MSHA would like to imply that they have jurisdiction as soon as a pick his the ground, but in practically: it's a mine when the development is "engaged in interstate commerce".
 

My input !
Information passed down to me .
In Nevada , in gold butte ( an old ghost mining town now considered a preserve )
John Lier , had an underground gold mine , with ball mill ,
He had MSHA visit , I was told , ( and I have visited the mine personally ) that they made him build concrete holding ponds and holding tanks , install safety railings , helicopter landing area for medical extraction if needed , rule board visible at office ( house on site ) enclose port opening ,lockable ,
I believe dust collectors.

I think they just wanted him gone , he bought it from some one ells that was running it . And was harass ( in my words ) to do everything MSHA required, just to make it un profitable for him.

Well after a couple more years , it worked , last I was out there , the house and buildings were abandoned and Vandalized be for he was able to even get his backhoe out and ball-mill .

So now it sat with a pile of junk in the desert .
I believe it was just so BLM could make it a Preserve so it or the area could no longer be mined .
 

This might give you an idea of how MSHA and very small mom-and-pop mines have interacted in the last 20 years:



I think the original intent was to improve safety conditions in coal mines. Before the 1970s, nobody really gave a sh*t about the people who mined coal so regulation came. Eventually, labor groups and probably large commercial mining interests pressured the authorities to crack down on the small operations that hadn't been much of a priority or had been exempted before.
 

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I took the Msha new miner course. I completely agree with you Blaster the Mining Act was for the protection of the miner. Mining was the 2nd most dangerous profession back in the 70's according to the trainer and a couple of major mine disasters brought about the mining act. A couple take aways from the course. According to the instructor who had been an MSHA inspector, there is no way a small operation can be compliant with MSHA rules in an underground mine. That stinks. Another key point was that a mill site is a redflag. MSHA puts the mine id number on the crushing/screening equipment not the mine itself. Once you have a mine id number MSHA is required to visit once a year and inspect. He did say in general they don't go around looking for small mines they are busy enough keeping up with inspections on large mines. HOWEVER, if there is a complaint about your mine, your activities are easily visible, or you spend too much time at the saloon bragging about your finds your probably going to get a visit. So, yes they do have authority over ANY mine according to the instructor. He did say the Act prohibits them from financially bankrupting a mine but doesn't prohibit them from making the requirements to comply with the rules cost prohibitive and forcing a shut down that way. It was a good class and gave me an insight into the safety culture which I probably needed.
 

It's possible if you throw enough money at it. But a lot of these problems are very hard to solve at a small scale. For instance, the need for a mine rescue plan.
 

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