Molten Lead - How Old???

[Erik in NJ]

From same mid-1800's house with history. I found 2 or 3 of these. Rev War action in area. Any ideas on age based on patina Thanks!

 

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[Lucas]

Not datable except chemical tests, etc. Which cost way more than a nice new detector. :P

 

[Bramblefind]

Hi! I'd like to formally welcome you into the lead blob collecting club

 

[Erik in NJ]

Any way to bracket date it based on patina It's pretty white, but I don't know the timeframe it takes to oxidize lead.

 

[Lucas]

A year or 200 years. Depends on the environment. If you can find a Rev War ball and a 1900's bullet, then compare with your lead.

Did your mid-1800's house have plumbing and sewer pipes?

 

[Erik in NJ]

Have not found any Rev War balls there yet - oldest silver 1764 and youngest is ca 1900. I'm not sure when plumbing was first put in houses. Was wondering if this was residue from making bullets/balls or something else Looks like too much residue from sweating pipes. I just don't know how long it takes to get lead that white. Thanks again!

 

[Breezie]

Hi! I'd like to formally welcome you into the lead blob collecting club

Bramble,
You forgot to tell him your two are: Hi, from the USA!

Yes, WELCOME to the forum; it's a GREAT place with GREAT people!
Breezie

 

[boogeyman]

How close to any type of foundation were these found? Are there any signs of old lead pipe plumbing or cast iron drain pipe? Look up plumbing techniques for the 40s & 50s. Cast iron pipes were joined with oakum (if memory serves correctly) then a band type form was placed around the joint and lead was poured in sealing the joint. Lots of times lead splashed out or ran out over the top of the form.

If the soil is acidic like found in Arizona or Nevada, lead can oxidize like this in 20 or 30 years. As stated above chemical tests are expensive. You might try talking to an old plumber. If you have a local union, they can probably put you in touch with some of the "old boys". For the cost of a coffee or a lunch you may come up with a wealth of info.

Remember, one of the very best research sources are the old timers. They are a wealth of info, because they were there and lived it. An hour listening to the old timers will more than likely give you more knowledge than hours and hours in the library.

 

[CRUSADER]

To many variables to be sure, ie. the purity of the Lead & the ground conditions. If you want a finger in the air guess it looks 100-101 years old.

 

[Bramblefind]

Bramble,
You forgot to tell him your two are: Hi, from the USA!

I think maybe my USA piece is upside down and flipped

Erik - I did want you to know that the two pieces I posted are from a site that was settled around the 1770s and had very little activity after the late 1800s.

 

[Erik in NJ]

Bogey, Thanks, I do ike speaking to the old timers when I get a chance. As you said a wealth of info and sometimes they seem to really enjoy talking about the old days. This blob was a fair ways from the house.

Cru, Thanks for the estimate - it was a fair distance from the house and quite deep. Of course I got a strong hit with my SE Pro.

Bramble, Thanks...fortunately or unfortunately I've been a member of that club for years , but they are all unique so I keep 'em. Yours do look quite old with that solid white patina. Thanks for the info.

 

[Iron Patch]

I can tell you one thing.... there's a lot of milk containers with pictures of lead blobs on them. (They should be looking in the bushes)


Actually we drag it all home, just the big iron hits the bushes.

 

[Erik in NJ]

IP,

Check out this link - think it might be an old milk cap

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,364779.0.html

 

[Iron Patch]

IP,

Check out this link - think it might be an old milk cap

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,364779.0.html

I haven't a clue what that is. Stuff like that gets thrown in my junk bucket for Winter research...







When I'm in my 80s.

 

[artyfacts]

You can carbon date the lead but there is a very slim chance that carbon from the fire that melted it (wood, smoke) was infused into the lead, the tests are expensive for a hit or miss proposition. There is a data base of the lead properties that historians use to tell by the composition of the lead itself where it was mined since they all differ, giving them a possible idea of age based on when the mines were in operation. These methods still will not give you a uncompromisable date since lead objects where melted down and reused. I checked into the dating of oxidization, I did not receive a answer and never pursued it further. Working in the stained glass field since the early seventies and in restoring old and new leaded windows there are two many variables to consider guessing the age of oxidization on lead. Its always different. In my case I look at the glass used in the windows or lamps to consider its age. I guess in your case it would be other objects found in the vicinity of your object to guess its age. Arty

 

[Erik in NJ]

Thanks for the info Arty! Most of the items found at this site were mid-1800's (see my Royal Arch Mason counterstamped 1849 large cent from this site) which fits in well with the age of the house. There were Rev War skirmishes all over the area and I did pull a nice 1764 1 Reale that didn't look like it had been in circulation into the mid-1800s based on wear. I figured they were making ammunition during the war in the area, but I have little to no supporting evidence linking this with the war effort....it was quite deep so I'll assume 1830s - 1850s. Thanks everyone!

 

[boogeyman]

Eric,
Keep us updated on you finds as you work this site. It'd be interesting to see if you can narrow it down with future finds.