Modern trashy park settings

[Railo]

What kind of trashy park settings are you using ?
Atm I have used deus about 80h and starting to understand it better but I still get fooled by some trash items, or they keep slowing me down.
I currently use 12-18khz with 11'' coil, and 14khz with 9'' hf coil.

My problem is those very modern trashy areas when you swing your coil it sounds like a machinegun. I have notched pull tabs of (60-63 14khz) there are just too much of them, and with full tones they just sound so lovely.
Biggest problem is the newer crown caps, old liquor caps/crushed aluminium caps, they usually have vdi from 75-94 (14khz).

New pull tabs (60-63 14khz): I usually notch these out if the ground is full of them. So maybe i'm missing some gold also, but playing with odds here.
Older pull tabs/Beaver tails (66-72 14khz): Haven't notched these out and usually they come in different vdi number compared to the newer pull tabs, just have to dig alot of them. Wouldn't want to completely notch 60-72 out.
Old liquor/pull-of-caps/folded aluminium caps 72-88 14khz: My biggest problem, they give a nice solid tone with a clear x/y screen, usually they are in the same vdi as euro coins/older coins. Can't tell for certain if its trash or a coin. I usually dig alot of these.
New crown caps (82-95 14khz): Usually I can identify these 9/10, they don't have a solid line in the x/y screen and they sound different to coins, but I have no way of be certain with some crown caps if its silver or not. I have dug 2 silver items in more quit parks and would have identified them as crown caps on more trashy areas...

I know there isn't anyway to not dig trash, i'm just curious how to better identify them because there is so large variation of them. I have used rimming with the coil+lifting the coil and it works for newer crown caps. I have used the switch to 4k but there is no use with it to identify the liquor caps because the vdi number doesn't drop, they are identical to coins.
I have been using full tones, and i'm not certain if its the best way to hunt the trashy areas, maybe someone uses tone separation to cherry pick only certain vdi ?
But i've been using full tones from the start and its a good way to listen to the target, but there is just so much going on sometimes.

I have been watching how deus/other detectors deal with trash, seems like deus really likes some items more, or I haven't figured the machine yet. Also we seem to have different vdi in europe for certain trash compared to us.

 

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[Tedyoh]

Exactly why I avoid parks with the Deus....etrac or ctx would do much better in a park you describing.

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[toasted]

Hunting super trashy parks is not something I would do all the time but it is nice for a change once in awhile. I still use no disc or notch though. I just slow down and listen for those deep high squeekers. You will dig some steel crown caps with the Deus but by no means will a Minelab outhunt an experienced Deus user in a trashy park

 

[vferrari]

You are doing about the best you can under really trashy conditions. I notch nothing and use full tones. I can usually avoid rusty crown caps, bent can slaw, and deformed pull tabs and beaver tails because of the uneven "squirrelly" sound artifacts that you can hear at the leading and trailing edge of the target tone. However, perfect pull tabs, beaver tail rings, flat small aluminum pieces, and screw caps are going to sound like gold rings. Nickels have a more solid sounding coin tone than these things so I am getting better at calling them before I dig. Unless you want to completely toss in the towel on gold rings, that is unfortunately the price of admission. Non rusty crown caps and some of the aluminum screw caps have a subtle hollow tone that is harder to differentiate from a coin unless you are "in the zone" which sometimes doesn't happen during a dig session until after you've recovered a couple of those buggers against some coin finds. I guess it really comes down to whether the payoff is worth it in whatever trashy park from hell you find yourself at. Toasted is pretty much right and as you've said yourself, you cannot 100% avoid digging some of those things and if you start notching out some high reward targets then it might not be worth the trouble.

On the other hand, if it is a site you may work for weeks, months, or years, physically pulling the trash may eventually unmask some goodies underneath, in time.

 

[Tedyoh]

but by no means will a Minelab outhunt an experienced Deus user in a trashy park

My point is Deus does not shine in modern trash, at least not the way the OP wants it to......the sad truth is if you want to "cherry pick" a park, or not dig so much trash, you're a better off with a Minelab - the multi-frequency and TDI will pull less trash, if you are going by numbers... Minelabs are great "number" machines... there's no doubt about this....that said, after i bought my Deus I couldn't get rid of my Minelab fast enough and I would never think about getting another.

What will help with bottle caps is turning the Silencer way up....you lose depth but the caps will null out for the most part.

 

[vferrari]

My point is Deus does not shine in modern trash, at least not the way the OP wants it to......the sad truth is if you want to "cherry pick" a park, or not dig so much trash, you're a better off with a Minelab - the multi-frequency and TDI will pull less trash, if you are going by numbers... Minelabs are great "number" machines... there's no doubt about this....that said, after i bought my Deus I couldn't get rid of my Minelab fast enough and I would never think about getting another.

What will help with bottle caps is turning the Silencer way up....you lose depth but the caps will null out for the most part.

Understand what you are saying re: the enhanced ability to "see" trash with the Minelab TID vs. the Deus. The problem with the multifrequency Minelabs in high trash density situations is the relatively poor recovery speed vs. the Deus under those same conditions. So while a Minelab user will have a better chance making the right dig decision on the trash, they are more likely to miss the keeper signal masked by the trash. So there is no perfect solution unless you can swing both detectors at once, lol.

I have stayed away from messing with the Silencer, but I think I might just have to experiment with your suggestion. Might save my sanity dry beach hunting amongst all those crown caps.

 

[Geochem]

Good replies to the difficulty the OP presents.

As a learning curve, to understand the Deus - VDI verses type of emitted tones - I hunt several times a week less than 50 to 100 year old parks (i.e. modern parks.

I too do not notch and use Full Tones.

As part of learning the VDI for trash verses good keepers - and equally for learning the tones of various trash (and what stage of corrosion they are in) I have learned some favorable Deus program setting to dig less and find more keepers, even in a minefield of modern trash.

As Andy Sabisch states in his Deus handbook, each geographic area, soil types and phase of moisture content, speaks of multiple conditions when MD that just does not allow any one or so "do all" programs for generic discriptive places like "modern parks".

This where experience comes in like what some have obtained over time, like vferrari states.

I could give two or more "programs for modern parks" but they just do not have widespread applicability for all modern parks conditions.

I like the Deus for its versatility in sensitivity and range of applicability in program features that produce a wide range of information output.

To me an important note from most of the replies, the Deus is primarily a tone detector, and tones trump VDI, even though VDI has definite use of help generating additional information when combined with "type of tone".

Reread vferrari "distintions" from VDI and type of tones. Excellent information by experience.

I love the learning the Deus provides!

 

[Geochem]

My point is Deus does not shine in modern trash, at least not the way the OP wants it to......the sad truth is if you want to "cherry pick" a park, or not dig so much trash, you're a better off with a Minelab - the multi-frequency and TDI will pull less trash, if you are going by numbers... Minelabs are great "number" machines... there's no doubt about this....that said, after i bought my Deus I couldn't get rid of my Minelab fast enough and I would never think about getting another.

What will help with bottle caps is turning the Silencer way up....you lose depth but the caps will null out for the most part.

I really like your expertise based post information.

 

[Tedyoh]

I have stayed away from messing with the Silencer, but I think I might just have to experiment with your suggestion. Might save my sanity dry beach hunting amongst all those crown caps.

I hope it helps, good luck....you will find the ones just dropped yesterday are still going to sound pretty good (although to me they have that "overload" sound to them)....the more rusty they are the better the higher silencer works.

 

[vferrari]

I hope it helps, good luck....you will find the ones just dropped yesterday are still going to sound pretty good (although to me they have that "overload" sound to them)....the more rusty they are the better the higher silencer works.

Yeah, its that slight overload distortion sound that I find gives them away.

 

[sleepyjim]

My point is Deus does not shine in modern trash, at least not the way the OP wants it to......the sad truth is if you want to "cherry pick" a park, or not dig so much trash, you're a better off with a Minelab - the multi-frequency and TDI will pull less trash, if you are going by numbers... Minelabs are great "number" machines... there's no doubt about this....that said, after i bought my Deus I couldn't get rid of my Minelab fast enough and I would never think about getting another.

What will help with bottle caps is turning the Silencer way up....you lose depth but the caps will null out for the most part.

Deus is a sound machine, I never look at the numbers. I listen for the whisper squeeks and the break up at edges for trash..... Best advice, is time. Listen intently, anything different in what you hear? Note it, then dig it....Time will come where everything clicks and the trash you dig will drop off a ton.
No machine is perfect, but as said above, I can get a machine to filter out trash but it WILL miss targets. SO dig and learn.

I got my gold coin by hearing the tiny "good" sound under or mixed with the "junk" sound, if I didnt have the dig it and learn mind set, I would have missed it as so many others before me did as it was not more than 8" down.........

HH

Jim

 

[Railo]

Thank you everyone for your opinions.

Had a 5h hunt in a very trashy area with a lot of old liquor caps and rusty crown caps that sound like coins (once again). Sometimes lifting the coil helps with rusty caps, but that doesn't work with the liquor caps. I have to use the vdi and x/y screen for majority of the time, but seems like coins/liquor caps both give a solid line and diggable tone.
I'm in the dig them all phase now just trying to figure if there is some good indication if the target is trash or not, sometimes its quite desperate. Tried to get rid of notching the higher range 90-99, and even set the discrimination to 1, and immediately felt like the good targets popped out even more.

I've watched some videos and read about other detectors like F75, ctx3030, and even at pro with sniper coils. Seems like they will give more proper vdi or tell you better if the target is trash or not, but same time it looks more obvious that deus has the upper hand with reactivity and depth/coverage with the 9'' coil. I don't know how slow it is to swipe with a 5'' coil or how other detectors work in trashy areas. Only thing im worried is that will the 9'' coil unmask like a f75/at pro/ctx with a small sniper coil ?
Maybe I will get to try some of those machines, or even purchase them at some point, but first I will have to figure the deus out, next hunt I will put the remote to pocket and see how it goes.

Also I don't know how good deus is finding higher conductive items like silver from modern high conductive trash, because bottle caps seem to give vdi/tone from 84-95.

 

[vferrari]

I suggest building a test garden with coins (all denom including nickels), screw caps, crown caps, pull tabs, and beavertails. Train your ear to hear the subtle differences between a solid coin hit and crown cap, and screw top. The may all give the same tone frequency but there are differences in intensity and leading/trailing edge tonal artifacts that clue you in. Nickels likewise should sound cleaner and more solid than pull tabs. Ok to look at the screen for confirmation of the rough vid for a target hit, after that you should swing across the target from multiple angles with your eyes closed and listen to the subtle audio clues.

 

[Gone Detectin]

Im no expert with the deus but I've been really enjoying running the machine with very tight notching and high reactivity in trash. I did this as a test and so far its made some of my short hunts (Due to lack of time to hunt) bare good finds. What I like the most is how quiet the machine runs, super quiet. But it is on the shallow side.

Notching open 59 - 64 for nickles and 89 - 96 for dimes and quarters copper pennies everything else knocked out.

Freq 11 or 17. 17 hits nickles harder.

Reactivity 5 with -1 silencer. Lowering the reactivity increases depth..

Sense 90

Ground balance slightly negative to your ground conditions and in expert ground notch from 80 to max (100?), Ive not tried lower than 80 but I will especially if the ground notch is just a audio notch? If someone could let me know..

I like my audio response at 7 to hear clear hits.

Disc at -6.4, full tones

Normalized ID stays on.

I know this is kinda counter productive from what most people are looking for. Its not deep and or hot and its not a dig it all and find everything good next to a nail program, but it does make for finding good targets rather quickly and will allow you to do so in silence.

Also you might already know this but if you place any lower conductor next to a a higher conductor (pull tab next to a dime) its going to pull the dime down into the 80's and maybe even lower. Point being it will notch out the dime. This style (program) of hunting requires hitting a small trashy area from multiple angles to get the good stuff. I still dig shallow rusty bottle caps and some trash though.