Modern mans knapping?

[SportsmanAll]

I have a spot close by that has produced artifacts for me before, as well as 1930’s glass bottles and other pieces. It’s not uncommon for me to find arrowheads in with the more modern garbage and such. But this is a new one! I’ve seen on here that some people have found modern glass that has been worked. It’s never been something I doubted or anything like that but when your artifact hunting your hoping for the oldest of old. So I have never really been looking for knapped modern glass. But tonight I stumbled upon this blade, clearly made out of modern glass, and within the vicinity I also found multiple pieces that had been flaked off of it in the production process. Super cool. Just thought I’d share the story and pics. Thoughts if you have hem are welcomed.

 

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[ToddsPoint]

It could be a proto-historic glass artifact made by an Indian. Also could be modern. Get a loupe and look at the edges closely and see if you see any bits of copper stuck to the glass. Modern knappers mostly use copper and sometimes it will leave a trace. Glass arrowheads made by Indians were found near Ft. Kaskaskia along the Mississippi River in IL so they do exist. Also, Ishi, the last wild Indian in CA (around 1911) would hit the dumps of settlers at night looking for glass/metal to make arrowheads. Gary

 

[Older The Better]

It could be a proto-historic glass artifact made by an Indian. Also could be modern. Get a loupe and look at the edges closely and see if you see any bits of copper stuck to the glass. Modern knappers mostly use copper and sometimes it will leave a trace. Glass arrowheads made by Indians were found near Ft. Kaskaskia along the Mississippi River in IL so they do exist. Also, Ishi, the last wild Indian in CA (around 1911) would hit the dumps of settlers at night looking for glass/metal to make arrowheads. Gary

I’d agree with you except that looks like it has the texture from the bottom of a bottle made in the 1930’s + on its face

 

[Saguache]

I've found modern flaked glass and stone on our farm. In the 30's the Navajo would come up from AZ during potato harvest and work hand picking the potatoes. They took sheep for pymt.
Older folks said they'd set up camp just west of the house and it was a way to pass the time in the evenings. Only found one glass point, most other stuff was blades.

 

[SportsmanAll]

I’d agree with you except that looks like it has the texture from the bottom of a bottle made in the 1930’s + on its face

Yes it does have a textured face. But it has 100% been knapped. I will look as close as I can at the worked edges for copper. The age of the flaked pieces are also evidences to me of its age.

 

[Older The Better]

For sure it was knapped. I didn’t mean it wasn’t I just meant it wasn’t from the contact period. As one poster pointed out Navajo were still knapping in the 30’s but for the most part by 1930 it wasn’t natives, at least in the sense we think of when we post artifacts here. I’m pushing my knowledge here and may be corrected but that texture comes from the Owens automatic bottling machine invented in the 30’s sometime.

 

[SportsmanAll]

For sure it was knapped. I didn’t mean it wasn’t I just meant it wasn’t from the contact period. As one poster pointed out Navajo were still knapping in the 30’s but for the most part by 1930 it wasn’t natives, at least in the sense we think of when we post artifacts here. I’m pushing my knowledge here and may be corrected but that texture comes from the Owens automatic bottling machine invented in the 30’s sometime.

the area I found this I have also found metal trade points as well. At one time there was thousands of waterfowl in this area so it’s attracted all time lines for artifacts. Isn’t it more safe to say that it is modern Indians doing this work rather than settlers and such?

 

[Older The Better]

For sure it could be modern na, it just can’t be older than 1930 “IF” that texture is from an automatic bottling machine. If it was some sort of embossing or decorative element then feel free to roll back the clock. To me 1930 Native American with 100’s of years European influence and near destruction of their culture just aren’t the same people as those that were free from any national government control at least when it comes to the value or wow factor of finding one of their artifacts.

 

[smokeythecat]

I can't imagine anything more icky than making tiny hurtful glass shards! Actually I can, but getting stuck with these, ick.

 

[ToddsPoint]

I can't imagine anything more icky than making tiny hurtful glass shards! Actually I can, but getting stuck with these, ick.

You're right smokey. That's why I avoided knapping obsidian like the plague. Gary

 

[SportsmanAll]

For sure it could be modern na, it just can’t be older than 1930 “IF” that texture is from an automatic bottling machine. If it was some sort of embossing or decorative element then feel free to roll back the clock. To me 1930 Native American with 100’s of years European influence and near destruction of their culture just aren’t the same people as those that were free from any national government control at least when it comes to the value or wow factor of finding one of their artifacts.

It’s definitely 30’s I believe. But for my collection it’s all about having as many types and ages. And so by default in my mind, if I’ve found upward of a thousand projectiles and this is the first of its kind and age. That makes the rarity of it climb up my list. Which makes it more valuable to me. 1/1000 piece type thing. But that could just be me. We have sooooo much obsidian around here that i know even in the 30’s there was ample obsidian points being made still. This ones just cool cause it’s modern glass.

 

[uniface]

Somebody having a slow day creek walking finds a broken bottle and amuses himself flaking it as he hunts. Seems reasonably in accord with the evidence.

 

[Older The Better]

It’s definitely 30’s I believe. But for my collection it’s all about having as many types and ages. And so by default in my mind, if I’ve found upward of a thousand projectiles and this is the first of its kind and age. That makes the rarity of it climb up my list. Which makes it more valuable to me. 1/1000 piece type thing. But that could just be me. We have sooooo much obsidian around here that i know even in the 30’s there was ample obsidian points being made still. This ones just cool cause it’s modern glass.

Well if you put it that way now I want one haha

 

[eyemustdigtreasure]

the area I found this I have also found metal trade points as well. At one time there was thousands of waterfowl in this area so it’s attracted all time lines for artifacts. Isn’t it more safe to say that it is modern Indians doing this work rather than settlers and such?

Yeah, the Contact Period, where our material culture, blended briefly with the natives' culture - and, glass, copper, most metals became prized commodities...!
This cool artifact was hurriedly made, but hard to say if its old, without lab work - hydration skins are measured on the altered glass surfaces, to help get age.

 

[Neanderthal]

Your ruler is likely older than the knapping on that glass.

 

[Georgivs]

I used to do this during break in the school yard. Yes, a corner of our school yard was a poorly covered dump. As for anyone who would complain about flakes of glass... again it was a dump full of broken glass.

 

[SportsmanAll]

Somebody having a slow day creek walking finds a broken bottle and amuses himself flaking it as he hunts. Seems reasonably in accord with the evidence.

No creek to walk........:/

 

[SportsmanAll]

Your ruler is likely older than the knapping on that glass.

I suppose all thoughts could be valid. It may be worth noting that withing 50 yards of this glass knife there are two HUGE obsidian flaking camps. Thousand and thousands of flakes over looking a old water source. And upon finding the flaking areas, sadly one 3 points were found amidst to flakes. But I still hold it to the same timeline. New obsidian, super shiny and not too aged. So if I had to guess (and seeing as I’m the only on of us that’s been there....lol) I’d have to say the evidence points to older than the ruler haha.

 

[Older The Better]

Fact check on myself, looks more like 40’s

https://sha.org/bottle/bases.htm

 

[monsterrack]

I am guilty of knapping something in a creek out of local stone just to test the material that they had and doing it where they would have found the stone sorce.