Modern Human's emergence 200,000 years ago? Seriously?

[DeirdreTerry]

Heard this news stating that a jawbone was found in Israel that is estimated to be 200,000 years old. If stats are to be believed, can we really consider this jawbone to belong to a human?

By looking at the image, it doesn't look like a human bone. It can be of some animal as well. Plus 200,000 years old, that makes it more skeptical.

What are your thoughts?

mandible​

 

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[ToddsPoint]

Do you mean 200,000 yrs. old or 2,000,000 yrs. old. If 200K, I'll buy that. If 2M, I say not human. Gary

 

[No gold in NY]

Did you get some copy along with that pic? I would like to read it.

 

[jeff of pa]

2,000,000 ? I have no doubt.

Age of the earth 4.543 billion years.
My guess Human life has been here, and destroyed most of itself,
over & over for at least Half that Time. "Minimum"

What hasn't Been the fault of Humans themselves, was most Likely Natures Course.
such as volcano's, earthquakes, severe weather , and space debris.


don't expect science to ever admit it, without kickback from the powers that be
trying to shame them for saying so.

Just like alien Life.
Claim you know it exists & Expect someone to Pop up
to shame you publicly for it.

 

[pepperj]

Did you get some copy along with that pic? I would like to read it.

Here's a good link read on the subject of the recovery.

Fossil jawbone from Israel is the oldest modern human found outside Africa

 

[thrillathahunt]

"......scientific fundamentalists do not realize that their opinions are based on faith. They think they know the truth." Rupert Sheldrake - biochemist/biologist

 

[Erndog]

Human. Good teeth.

 

[wingmaster]

I've told people for years I thought they were way off, if not in the right place the evidence would long be gone and I sure the earth has changed enough over that amount of time to wipe away any evidence one might find. How did they know about some stars we can only see with a telescope, they might have been visible millions of years ago if their right about the universe expanding. HH

 

[P.ALLEN]

Hominids, not Human...we are Homo Sapiens Sapiens..yes I added two Sapiens...This thing would have looked like a really rough Neanderthal..heavy brow ridge...chances are it was a mutation within the Neanderthal's...typical media jumps the gun and put's the spin on things. I don't buy that it's Homo Sapiens (although it could be through contaminiation of the site (duplicate))....contamination of a dig site or burial can skew age dating...fire, radiation etc.

 

[luckyrock3]

"Science bases it's views on what's observed, faith is the denial of observation so that belief can be preserved". Made me think of this great line from Tim Minchin's storm on YouTube.

 

[SeabeeRon]

Here's a good link read on the subject of the recovery.

Fossil jawbone from Israel is the oldest modern human found outside Africa

Thanks for the link pepprj! So, at 200,000 years seems possible.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Do you mean 200,000 yrs. old or 2,000,000 yrs. old. If 200K, I'll buy that. If 2M, I say not human. Gary

It is 200,000 years not 2 million years. I corrected the typo from 2,00,000 to 200,000 which is what he meant. Members can not change titles only mods and admins.


I have no problem believing the 200,000 to 300,000 time span.

"This ancient jawbone suggests our species left Africa 40,000 years earlier than expected

By Ann Gibbons Jan. 25, 2018 , 2:00 PM

In a collapsed cave on the western slope of Mount Carmel in Israel, researchers have found the jawbone of an ancient human who may have been one of the first modern members of our species to leave Africa. Here, in a huge cave by the Mediterranean Sea, ancient people roasted hare, turtle, and ostrich eggs and knapped stone tools from flint. If the researchers’ dates of 177,000 to 194,000 years for the jaw and tools hold up, it means that modern humans left Africa 40,000 years earlier than expected. The find may have implications for when and how our species arose, and how many waves of early humans left Africa.

Before now, the earliest modern human fossils outside Africa came from the nearby Skhul Cave on Mount Carmel and Qafzeh Cave in Israel, sites dated to between 80,000 to 120,000 years old. But our species arose in Africa some 300,000 years ago, according to new dates on a skull in Morocco last year, and some researchers have claimed an early exodus from Africa based on fragmentary fossils and stone tools in the Middle East, Arabia, and China. But securely dated sites with accepted human fossils outside of Africa have been lacking.

The upper jaw described in Science today was discovered in 2002 by students digging in the floor of Misliya Cave, the remains of a collapsed cave carved into the cliffs on the western slopes of Mount Carmel, 12 kilometers south of Haifa, Israel. From the first look at the upper jawbone, which retains a complete row of teeth on its left side, the researchers knew it was a member of our species, Homo sapiens. Its canine and other teeth resemble those of the modern humans at Skhul and Qafzeh, and it lacked features found in Neandertals.

The jawbone was excavated in the same sedimentary layer as thousands of “museum quality” handaxes and flint tools, says co-author Mina Evron of the University of Haifa. The tools were crafted with a sophisticated method called Levallois technology, which requires abstract thinking. Some researchers have suggested the method was invented by H. sapiens and may mark our species’s presence and early steps out of Africa.

Three teams independently dated the finds using uranium isotope decay and several luminescence methods, which determine how long ago mineral grains were last exposed to light. They dated the burned flint tools to about 179,000 years (plus or minus 48,000 years), which fits with other work dating Levallois style tools in Israel to 140,000 to 250,000 years ago. They also dated a sliver of enamel from a tooth to 174,000 years, and say that crust adhering to the upper jaw is at least 185,000 years old.

The dates on the tools seem solid, dating experts say. But several question the dates on the fossil itself, partly because the authors write that the jawbone was scanned using computerized tomography three times, and the x-rays could have influenced the amount of radiation trapped in the tooth enamel, skewing the luminescence dates. Uranium dating expert Alistair Pike of the University of Southampton in the United Kingdom notes that a crust on the jawbone “is heavily contaminated by detritus.” The contamination could bias the radiometric dates on the crust, which includes a younger date of 70,000, says geochronologist Warren Sharp of the Berkeley Geochronology Center in California. He and others also note that relying on nearby tools is problematic, because it’s possible that the bone was mixed into the tool-bearing layer later in time.

The team stoutly defends its dates, noting that its painstakingly controlled excavation links tools and fossil tightly in the same sedimentary layer and, thus, time.

If their dates are correct, “it’s mind-blowing,” says archaeologist Michael Petraglia of the Max Planck Institute for the Science of Human History in Jena, Germany, who says the find suggests that modern humans migrated out of Africa repeatedly, with multiple groups moving into the Middle East. They may have moved out of Africa when the climate was more humid 244,000 to 190,000 years ago, but gone extinct as the climate got arid again, says paleoanthropologist Marta Mirazon Lahr of the University of Cambridge in the United Kingdom, who was not involved with the new find.

The implications go back even further for co-author and physical anthropologist Israel Hershkovitz of Tel Aviv University in Israel, who says the find suggests our ancestors arose far earlier than thought. “[If] our species was in Israel 200,000 years ago, it suggests our species is very old—not just 300,000 years old, but older.”

This ancient jawbone suggests our species left Africa 40,000 years earlier than expected | Science | AAAS

 

[against the wind]

I guess if there was a gold tooth in there i would be interested.

 

[Professor of Engineering]

Thank you for sharing!

 

[Kray Gelder]

Terry, I read the article, and it was informational in nature. Your original post sounds like it challenged you somehow. Threatened you, even. Care to explain why simple information trips a reaction in you?

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

Works for me. Homo sapiens coming to be around the Mediterranean Sea that long ago, doesn't jump the previously found remains much further back outside Africa. There are remains in Morocco of Homo Sapiens much older than 200,000 years. Doesn't mean they were very technologically advanced or had much of a language, yet.

The interesting thing is that means we had around 160,000 years of co-habitation with Neanderthals and Homo heidelbergensis where we interacted.

 

[T.C.]

It's all an educated guess...

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

And years of painstaking, scientific research and peer reviews.

 

[Duckshot]

Terry, I read the article, and it was informational in nature. Your original post sounds like it challenged you somehow. Threatened you, even. Care to explain why simple information trips a reaction in you?

I'm not threatened but I sure am skeptical. What method was used to date the items found with the bone, and why a ten thousand year discrepancy between the age of the enamel and the age of the crust?

Not only that, but it is human nature to want to believe that a find is older than it possibly could be. It has happened to me. People just want to believe they found something rare. Also, finding a "first" is the best known method for securing government or university grants and funding.

 

[Duckshot]

And another thing. How long is 200,000 years on the scale of evolution? I would think evolution would take place on such a timeline. Why don't we have more teeth or bigger skulls than the jaw found? When they talk about evolution, the scientists' heads are always growing bigger.