Miniature cannon and its carriage recovered from 17t century ship

[Smithbrown]

Miniature 17[SUP]th[/SUP] century cannon and carriage found on ship inthe Netherlands- nice picture!
http://www.nu.nl/wetenschap/4086042/mini-kanon-van-zeventiende-eeuws-schip-gevonden-in-dronten.html

Translation: Archaeologists have Thursday during the excavation of aseventeenth -century cargo ship in Dronten found a small bronze cannon. Thatmade the museum a New Land Heritage Friday.
The miniature cannon is about 15 centimeters long and 8centimeters high. "It 's very special ," said a spokeswoman for theheritage center .It is an object that in the seventeenth century was rare. In awreck such a finding has not been done before. Last year in Dronten begun theexcavation of the ship. It is the intention of the wreck in its entirety to digup .
On the cannon is still not legible inscription found . Inaddition, a full tankard and a complete boot found.
The finds are Saturday to admire during the public

 

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[old man]

Nice find.

 

[ARC]

IS a kids toy.

Amazing that children were playing with these REAL cannon.

 

[TreasureCDave]

Arrc is right ... it's 6" long by 3" high

 

[old man]

Arrc is right ... it's 6" long by 3" high

It might be a kids toy? But I think ARRC is upset because he's so old and he lost his.

 

[Jolly Mon]

I am sure Smithbrown can weigh in with a definitive answer, but my guess would be that it is a signal cannon, not a toy.

 

[ARC]

Heh...
I should have not deleted my earlier posts...

Tis a toy.

 

[Smithbrown]

Well I would some more definite info before giving ananswer. M y thoughts are as follows:
The gun is too small to be a real signal gun and thecarriage is the wrong sort- field carriage not ships carriage.
I don’t think it is a toy for children, possibly a playthingfor adults. The carriage is very well made. There are a number of survivingminiature bronze cannons with Dutch provenances., often in pairs. They wereprobably made as gifts for adults, to have in their houses or estates orpossibly ships. Perhaps it was the property of the captain who utilized it as asignal gun. Certainly would like to know more about the size and type of theship. It might just be a coasting barge moving someone’s property to a newhome. We really need to know the context of its finding.
Smithbrown

 

[SADS 669]

It could be a decoration for a mess dinner......

 

[Smithbrown]

I don't think the 17th century Dutch had mess dinners in that sort of tradition, but they did have Guild banquets.

 

[SADS 669]

Got it, thanks......best wishes.

 

[TreasureCDave]

A little search engine sleuthing turn up these links that show toy canon were made that were even able to fire. The size was about right too.

Toy Cannon Site

and

 

[joe frog]

Two small cannon that were sterling silver was found in the Keyes by Chuck Mitchell many years ago. These small cannons were from the 1733 fleet wrecks located along the mid keyes. I think there also considered toys or a present to someone.

 

[Jolly Mon]

Since one of the world's foremost ordnance experts is unable to answer definitively at this point, I certainly won't try !!!

My thoughts are simply that an item this exquisite would not have been purposely cast in bronze as a children's toy in the 1600's. I could be wrong. LOL.

Add the context of the finding--apparently the wreckage of a cargo ship--and the toy scenario seems even less plausible, at least to my thinking.

Maybe it was some sort of presentation piece given to the captain or one of the ship's officers at some point... we will probably never know for sure, but it is a fascinating object in any event...

 

[TreasureCDave]

Just for the record - I was not trying to undermine any expert opinion as I don't know anyone on here yet (expert or otherwise)

Just my uneducated guess. (and some good pics I found)

 

[old man]

Just for the record - I was not trying to undermine any expert opinion as I don't know anyone on here yet (expert or otherwise)

Just my uneducated guess. (and some good pics I found)

TreasurecDave, Nice post with video. And don't worry about upsetting anyone on here.
A lot of us are just mean, grumpy old wind bags.
Thanks for sharing.

 

[Smithbrown]

Here's another Very Unusual 17th century Dutch cannon for you all! New to Fort Nelson, a stunning composite Drake gun | Royal Armouries Blog