bergie
Bronze Member
- Aug 2, 2004
- 1,815
- 1,147
Interesting stuff...
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5829381/
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5829381/
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Military Camp Found
- Thread starter bergie
- Start date
richg
Sr. Member
You beat me to it. I was just going to post that article as I have read it at work earlier today. Definitely good stuff!!! HH
C
Charles,Oak Island
Guest
Interesting
elkboy
Full Member
Weather it would be looting or not the public would think so after reading ( "He hopes no one will loot the site in the meantime. Collectors have visited the area, metal-detectors in hand, searching for the site, Wager said." ) I guess if you carry a metal detector your a looter. Nice article with exception of wager's comment. HH Dave
Lowbatts
Gold Member
Nice article up to the point, as Elboy points out, MD'ers are associated with "looting". Gotta love that statist position. Let's see, where is this guy from? A State University? What's he doing? Looting at Taxpayers expense. He has a degree and title, so that gives him license to dig anywhere anytime, but me? I'm a looter. All men are created equal, those who teach at college have earned a nobility and privilege, unlike us common, vulgar looters. I hope I find this guys class ring someday. I really, really do.
elkboy
Full Member
Great comment lowbatts I hope you find it to.? Lets see how well his degree and status helps him find it.? HH Dave
Add my name to the list of people that hope you find his ring as well as anything else he has or "loots" from that site. While on another subject, some corespondence from Bob Weller on a similar bent you went on is appropriate (from "Treasure News"):
Then I received this one from Bob (Frogfoot) Weller:
>Matt: I just returned from the Underwater Intervention Convention in Houston
>and the UNESCO situation was prevalent on everyone's mind. Several
>discussion panels addressed the situation because it has become serious. What
>began with a few simple-minded archeologists with thoughts of controlling the
>worlds shipwreck sites, has suddenly blossomed into a more dramatic situation
>where EVERTHING underwater will belong to them. They will dictate who dives,
>explores, and salvages. This includes the laying of telephone cables across
>the bottom of the ocean. The drilling for oil is possibly next on their
>list. They said in their last convention in Paris in July that they were
>doing it for the good of the people...and yet in the 3 days of discussion not
>one time did the word "Public" come up. It boils down to some self-serving
>archeologists that would leave the 3,000,000 or more shipwrecks on the bottom
>as "time capsules" until the can raise the money to let "their own"
>archeologists meticulously salvage the sites. They want US to finance their
>efforts on the shipwrecks they take away from us.
>Over the past 6 months they have been traveling to the various smaller
>nations to get their vote on ratifying the "Treaty" that comes up for vote in
>July. If the treaty is signed by only a majority, then it becomes
>ratified...and that is the beginning of the end.
>"SeaPro" is a group organized to prevent that from happening. Several of my
>group, as well as myself, contributed money to this group at the Convention.
>They are also planning on visiting the various smaller nations to advise them
>of the criticality of this vote coming up, and not to make a mistake by
>voting with the archeologists. Everyone can help sponsor this project by
>calling Pat Cline, Treasure Salvors in Key West. His phone #305/294-9732,
>305/294-3336.
>It is also interesting that at the last Paris convention held by UNESCO, that
>not a single salvor or salvage group was represented at the meeting...they
>were not inviited. Strange when you consider they trying to take away
>everyone's dream of shipwreck salvage, but then again...if you are building a
>hangman's posse you really don't want a lot of interference. Frogfoot
AND ANOTHER:
At 03:27 PM 2/3/00 EST, you wrote:
>Matt; Just one more thought that I have been a strong proponent of. There
>is nothing wrong with the PUBLIC owning a piece of history! A good example
>of this is the salvage of the Atocha. Here is a site that the state of
>Florida watched with a critical eye as it was systematically...and
>archeologically, salvaged. The preservation was completed correctly, the
>research and documentation was completed to the satisfaction of the state,
>and a sample of the artifacts and treasure donated to the state of Florida
>even though the Supreme Court awarded full jurisdiction of the site to the
>Fisher group. Some 140,000 silver coins were recovered in the process, and
>most of these were finally awarded to investors. In turn, throughout the
>various United States, a number of the artifacts and personal treasure were
>donated to local museums as a tax write-off. (e.g. Tampa Museum ) But I
>would estimate that at least 50,000 coins were individually mounted in gold
>bezels and hung around someone's neck. Those 50,000 individuals have become
>ambassadors of history. Because of the coin hanging around their neck they
>can tell a brief history of a 1622 hurricane and shipwreck to just about
>anyone willing to listen. A history that they would otherwise have been
>oblivious to. That's a lot better than having a pile of silver coins sitting
>in some museum gathering dust while an occasional visitor files past to see
>the "remanants of a shipwreck". There is nothing wrong with the public
>owning a piece of history. Frogfoot
My reply:
Bob,
You are exactly right. It has been my "fortune" to work with many archeologists, state archeologists among them. I have been hired as a guide, to show them submerged Indian mounds, and other resources along this coast. In no instance did I find any archeologist that did not openly show the thrill of discovery when I showed them a site. On one occasion, when I said they could not bring artifacts aboard my boat without a permit, they were taken aback (I guess they thought they were exempt from law). I've asked many what their favorite find was, and usually the answer is a projectile point, or some such item THAT THEY KEEP IN THEIR own HOME COLLECTION. A few years ago, a County Archeologist in Hernando was asked that same question by a newspaper reporter for Hernando Today, and he promptly pulled some artifacts out of his home collection for her to photograph.
Amazing. When the treasure hunter shows the thrill of discovery, he's "rabid with greed." When the treasure hunter keeps an artifact, he's "looting. Speaking of looting, I don't know of a single shipwreck found by the state archeologists in Florida. They simply pirate (read: loot) other peoples finds, by using the laws or bullying tactics. If there's a shipwreck you know of that they've located by themselves, from beginning to end, let me know. The end result is, they lose, as the average diver is too scared to report anything, and millions of bits of information are lost each and every day.
There's another dirty little secret they don't like brought up. And that is the coin or spearpoint you've found and dutifully turn in or log for them to determine disposition, they already have tens of thousands just like it. Most are resting in vaults and drawers at the P.K. Younge Museum and other places, removed for all time from sight (except for the archeologists). That begs the question, after you have studied 100 projectile points or coins or whatever, what can be learned from the identical 101st? Why catalog and store tens of thousands of anything, if they're so desperately in need of protection? And when is making money from doing films on salvaging shipwrecks, talks on artifacts, books, and other sources of income not just another form of treasure hunting with a degree? How many of them give all the money they make from such enterprises back, out of archeological purity? I wonder.
Sorry to have run on, but you caught me sitting here alone, in a fit of melancholy, and with one hell of a cold.
Matt
http://www.treasuresites.com/news.htm
Then I received this one from Bob (Frogfoot) Weller:
>Matt: I just returned from the Underwater Intervention Convention in Houston
>and the UNESCO situation was prevalent on everyone's mind. Several
>discussion panels addressed the situation because it has become serious. What
>began with a few simple-minded archeologists with thoughts of controlling the
>worlds shipwreck sites, has suddenly blossomed into a more dramatic situation
>where EVERTHING underwater will belong to them. They will dictate who dives,
>explores, and salvages. This includes the laying of telephone cables across
>the bottom of the ocean. The drilling for oil is possibly next on their
>list. They said in their last convention in Paris in July that they were
>doing it for the good of the people...and yet in the 3 days of discussion not
>one time did the word "Public" come up. It boils down to some self-serving
>archeologists that would leave the 3,000,000 or more shipwrecks on the bottom
>as "time capsules" until the can raise the money to let "their own"
>archeologists meticulously salvage the sites. They want US to finance their
>efforts on the shipwrecks they take away from us.
>Over the past 6 months they have been traveling to the various smaller
>nations to get their vote on ratifying the "Treaty" that comes up for vote in
>July. If the treaty is signed by only a majority, then it becomes
>ratified...and that is the beginning of the end.
>"SeaPro" is a group organized to prevent that from happening. Several of my
>group, as well as myself, contributed money to this group at the Convention.
>They are also planning on visiting the various smaller nations to advise them
>of the criticality of this vote coming up, and not to make a mistake by
>voting with the archeologists. Everyone can help sponsor this project by
>calling Pat Cline, Treasure Salvors in Key West. His phone #305/294-9732,
>305/294-3336.
>It is also interesting that at the last Paris convention held by UNESCO, that
>not a single salvor or salvage group was represented at the meeting...they
>were not inviited. Strange when you consider they trying to take away
>everyone's dream of shipwreck salvage, but then again...if you are building a
>hangman's posse you really don't want a lot of interference. Frogfoot
AND ANOTHER:
At 03:27 PM 2/3/00 EST, you wrote:
>Matt; Just one more thought that I have been a strong proponent of. There
>is nothing wrong with the PUBLIC owning a piece of history! A good example
>of this is the salvage of the Atocha. Here is a site that the state of
>Florida watched with a critical eye as it was systematically...and
>archeologically, salvaged. The preservation was completed correctly, the
>research and documentation was completed to the satisfaction of the state,
>and a sample of the artifacts and treasure donated to the state of Florida
>even though the Supreme Court awarded full jurisdiction of the site to the
>Fisher group. Some 140,000 silver coins were recovered in the process, and
>most of these were finally awarded to investors. In turn, throughout the
>various United States, a number of the artifacts and personal treasure were
>donated to local museums as a tax write-off. (e.g. Tampa Museum ) But I
>would estimate that at least 50,000 coins were individually mounted in gold
>bezels and hung around someone's neck. Those 50,000 individuals have become
>ambassadors of history. Because of the coin hanging around their neck they
>can tell a brief history of a 1622 hurricane and shipwreck to just about
>anyone willing to listen. A history that they would otherwise have been
>oblivious to. That's a lot better than having a pile of silver coins sitting
>in some museum gathering dust while an occasional visitor files past to see
>the "remanants of a shipwreck". There is nothing wrong with the public
>owning a piece of history. Frogfoot
My reply:
Bob,
You are exactly right. It has been my "fortune" to work with many archeologists, state archeologists among them. I have been hired as a guide, to show them submerged Indian mounds, and other resources along this coast. In no instance did I find any archeologist that did not openly show the thrill of discovery when I showed them a site. On one occasion, when I said they could not bring artifacts aboard my boat without a permit, they were taken aback (I guess they thought they were exempt from law). I've asked many what their favorite find was, and usually the answer is a projectile point, or some such item THAT THEY KEEP IN THEIR own HOME COLLECTION. A few years ago, a County Archeologist in Hernando was asked that same question by a newspaper reporter for Hernando Today, and he promptly pulled some artifacts out of his home collection for her to photograph.
Amazing. When the treasure hunter shows the thrill of discovery, he's "rabid with greed." When the treasure hunter keeps an artifact, he's "looting. Speaking of looting, I don't know of a single shipwreck found by the state archeologists in Florida. They simply pirate (read: loot) other peoples finds, by using the laws or bullying tactics. If there's a shipwreck you know of that they've located by themselves, from beginning to end, let me know. The end result is, they lose, as the average diver is too scared to report anything, and millions of bits of information are lost each and every day.
There's another dirty little secret they don't like brought up. And that is the coin or spearpoint you've found and dutifully turn in or log for them to determine disposition, they already have tens of thousands just like it. Most are resting in vaults and drawers at the P.K. Younge Museum and other places, removed for all time from sight (except for the archeologists). That begs the question, after you have studied 100 projectile points or coins or whatever, what can be learned from the identical 101st? Why catalog and store tens of thousands of anything, if they're so desperately in need of protection? And when is making money from doing films on salvaging shipwrecks, talks on artifacts, books, and other sources of income not just another form of treasure hunting with a degree? How many of them give all the money they make from such enterprises back, out of archeological purity? I wonder.
Sorry to have run on, but you caught me sitting here alone, in a fit of melancholy, and with one hell of a cold.
Matt
http://www.treasuresites.com/news.htm
G
Goot
Guest
Good story. Just because this guy receives goverment grants to scratch around with a brush doesn't give him the right to call MDer's looters. I'm glad he shared his find but he has no class. I hope a so called LOOTER digs up a cannon beside his rectangle hole.
Goot
Ace 250
Goot
Ace 250
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