✅ SOLVED Military button?

[deepseeker3]

Not being a button man, I nearly tossed this. After a soaking in vinegar, the metal back quickly fell away, and in cleaning the inside, I found a clear image of the original stamp. It is not very recognizable from the outside.

It is smaller than a dime and shaped like a teeny weeny bowler hat. The gold plate is pretty heavy.

Any ideas on type of use or age?

Thank you.

 

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[bman3725]

Ww2 or ww1 military dress blue maybe? CB guy I know your lurking lol nail it bro

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Looks like a CW muffin type Officers Staff button but the steel back may make it a later replacement. http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/what/158955-button-experts.html
CannonBallGuy will know for sure.

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

Bman, I gave you a chance to be first this time. ;-) The button seems to be a Civilian-usage imitation of a US Army "Staff-rank" Officer's button. Staff-rank meaning, its use was limited by Regulations to the rank of Lt. Colonel or higher. That particular version was in service from 1832 to 1902, when it was replaced by the goldplated version of "US Great Seal" button. But as I said, this one seems to be a Civilian-usage imitation of the actual Military button. The Civilian-usage version dates from the early 20th-Century.

I had to Edit my original reply, because I discovered I'd missed seeing the photo of the button's front. After I examined that photo, and then re-checked the photos of its back, I now see that it looks like it does not have a separate rim, which an actual 3-piece button always has. It may be a 2-piece button which was deliberately manufactured to very closely resemble a 3-piece button. Collectors call thar type a "false 3-piece" button. One of those is shown on the right in the photo posted by BigCypressHunter.

Let me give public credit to BigCypressHunter for causing me to take a closer look at Deepseeker3's post.

Deepseeker3, I'll need to see well-focused closeup photos of the button's front. I can't see enough in the far-away photo of it to tell whether it has a separate rim/ring around the domed part. In the back-view photos, the whole thing seems to be just a single piece of brass. Compare your button with the one on the right in BCH's photo, which is a "false 3-piece" button, and the one on the left, which is an actual 3-piece button.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Does the steel back have any significance?

 

[bman3725]

Thanks cb guy I knew it was old dress blues didn't realize they were that old I knew you could date it exact.

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

Bman, I had to Edit my post. I'll need to see additional closeup photos of the button's front to be sure about whether it is a Military one or the Civilian-use imitation of the 1832-1902 Staff Officer button.

 

[deepseeker3]

There is a crimp ring around the button. That is the circle you see from the bottom.

Also, there was a wire on the back, and there is more than 7 stars.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

We are trying to determine if its type II or type III. (see diagram)


CBG maybe you could clear up this old post. http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/what/209803-eagle-button.html I brought up the question of 2 piece Officer Staff muffin buttons. Are 2 piece muffins always civilian issued replacements?

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

If its a 3 piece button, type III, held together with a crimped-on rim, it may be a tin-back Indian Wars like this. BP45 Indian War Staff Coat Button

I think what CBG and I are trying to say is if its a metal back 2-piece, type II, without the rim, like the 2nd button I pictured, its a civilian made "false 3 piece" later replacement for veterans uniforms. CBG explains in this old thread. http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/what/242889-button-s-help-please.html

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

There is a crimp ring around the button. That is the circle you see from the bottom.

Also, there was a wire on the back, and there is more than 7 stars.

I dont think the stars are significant. There may be different stars and shields with different manufacturers. The crimp ring would determine 3 piece authentic military and the tin back may have significance. Pic from CivilWarOutpost

 

[deepseeker3]

Yep, that is it.

We had a fort here build to protect the Fox River during the War of 1812. That would match the dates of the Indian wars east of the the Mississippi.

I learned a lot through this exercise. Thank you one and all.