Mexico Metal Detecting

[ArizonaWren]

Do we need a permit to detect in Mexico? What are the antiquities laws in Mexico? If we find old artifacts such as swords, spurs or bits from horse bridles can we keep them or must they be turned into the government?

I have been introduced to a great location on private land that was once an old smelter. There are at least two streets with old, adobe dwellings down each side, all in ruins of course.

I want to be able to detect here for relics and for whatever else may be in the area. I also want to follow the rules according to the Mexican Government.

What do I need to know and do before I start any serious detecting on this site?
Thanks for any assistance.
- Wren

 

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[Indiana_Jonz]

Warren
I worked in Mexico for 2 years. The taking of artifacts will land you in jail. And you never want to see the inside of one of those cells. However, if you do it clandestinly and the Mexican folk can keep thier mouths shut(which they wont) then you can detect all you want. I would recommend not being seen in public with your detector and when you cross the border, disguise your unit as something else for if they suspect it is a detector, it's lost for good. Just friendly advice as I have learned the hard way.Good luck

 

[dano91]

Dont worry about the permit worry about your life! If your talking the Az border it is total chaos down there right now with the drug war between the mexican cops, mexican government, and the drug dealers fighting for control, If you think there is a viable find down there I'd wait till things cool off or go Very heavily armed. Hell the american side isnt safe for the first 20 miles or so.

 

[ArizonaWren]

Dano,
Things at the border appear to have calmed down a bit. I passed south through the border last week @ Douglas, AZ. (Agua Prieta, Sonora) and didn't notice any of the Minute Man camps that were there just a month ago. I came back out through Antelope Wells, NM. (Verrendo, Chihuahua) and had no difficulties either way.

I don't have a special treasure find that I can just dig and split with. I am wanting to detect an old town and smelter site on private property. The owner has expressed a willingness to allow us the opportunity of detecting here for a lease fee and a possible share of the finds. I am trying to determine if this is something that I want to get involved in. I detected there for a couple of hours last week and made some neat finds, nothing real valuable but just enough to wet my appetite. 1 old looking (44-40 ?) bullet, 1 possible musket ball, an old medicine bottle dated 1845, 1 lump of molten metal approx. 9 oz. bluish silver looking, possibly lead, several large pieces of slag that give both positive and negative signals, and a few various broken metal items. I scanned around and saw what I believe to be several years worth of good detecting possibilities.

I was shown several old Mexican swords, 1 old Toledo sword, 3 old pistols (in great shape I might add), a bunch of old Spanish Spurs and Bits, all of these found on the surface while just walking around. (they have not used detectors in the area.) I was told of, but did not see, 8 gold coins found at the base of a mesquite tree that was discovered while riding a horse in the area. They claim these coins were stamped with the name of the old town/smelter on them. I don't have enough knowledge to know if that could be true or is BS.

I realize there are equally great places to detect without crossing the border, but this has dropped into my lap so to speak so I am checking into it a bit more to learn if I want to get involved or not. I was searching the internet trying to find information on the rules of Mexico when I clicked into this forum and feel like I have allready discovered a Treasure just meeting this group!

Thanks for all your help.
- Wren

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

[the drug war between the mexican cops, mexican government, and the drug dealers fighting for control,

A) So true, but then a couple hundred Yankee mines are being operated in Mexico without the slightest bit of trouble from that end?? Most are inside of the drug growing areas. Tayopa is specifically included in this, so I am personally very aware of this problem. Sigh, so much for any laws eliminating crime or violence.

~~~~~~~~~~

go Very heavily armed

A) Poorest advice that has been given. The average Mexican citiz. has no right to have firearms, hard laws have been passed to enforce this. Even the finding of a few empty cartridge cases will land you in jail for a long time. A 45 Acp or .357 pistol will automatically earn you 30 years.

In Mexico, if you shoot someone in self defense with an illegal fierearm, you are considered as having had a premeditated killing in mind by the simple illegal possesion of one.

Hunitng/firearm permits for tourists can be secured for rifles and shotguns during hunting seasons, while accompanied by a registered guide.

The Mexican constition iis almost exactly like it's US counterpart, the right of the citizen to have firearms was guarenteed, however a simple stroke of a pen by Echevarria quasi-legally changed that over night. So watch out for your constitional rights being nulified the same way under the Homeland Security Act. It can and is being done right now subtly. Don't give up any rights, including TH'ing , under the guise of national security or preserving historical data, the various organizations have more than they can work for the next 100 years.

 

[DesertGhost]

Wren,

I have been to Mexico plenty of times over the last ten years and never had one problem. Several times my truck was searched at the regular army checkpoints and sometimes one of the English speaking army guys would notice and comment on the Minelab detectors I had with us but besides that we have been left alone. I would say you are more at risk from the odd bandits that travel the roads at night. Always take care to either camp at remote sites that are not visable from the roads or camp within the confines of a families' land or campsite that are frequented by Americans. I am sure there are bad apples in the Mex Army, but we have never run across them.

Once when I was bringing back some antique (old) looking items that we had purchased from an old Indian camp in baja I was asked for a receipt at one of the Military Checkpoints along the toll road, fortunately I did get the old man who sold me the items to write it out on a piece of paper at the time of the deal. The Mexicans seemed ok with it and we were sent on our way.

Last bit of advice, do not take pictures at the Military Checkpoints, be friendly and try to speak some of the language. Also, for some reason we always seem to camp in areas where there is active poaching, this brings us in contact with roving groups of vehicle mounted Mex Military, usually in the mornings while we are having a fireside breakfast. The officer will usually approach and ask a few questions and also inspect the camp for game. We normally take quite a few oranges with us, offering them to the guys in the truck/Humvee while the officer checks the camp.

I was just remined by my son that once while we where in Janos for a few days some angry "Local" Police approached us without any provocation, they left as quickly as they arrived and we never did find out what was going on. Quien Sabin

Best of Luck!!

Tad

 

[Desertdigger]

Tad has the true story. I have 15 years experience mining and metal detecting in both old Mexico and Baja in Baja everything is different. Leave the girls alone, stay out of bars, don't even think of dope and purge your truck of guns and ammo, that is the #1 thing that will get you put in prison for years, that and being the arrogant AH,s that some of us are will cause you trouble. Otherwise be respectful, its their country, their rules. For Wren :I wish you and Tad would contact me via e-mail. Wren, you have already let the cat out of the bag because I know where you have been!

PS: I live in Baja 6 to 7 months a year. So if any of you want a helping hand on a first trip I can put you in contact with the right person or you are welcome to tag along with me and I will get you across the border and pointed in the right direction. I will be returning in late september or early October this year to open my camp and then sometime in October will commence a 1000 mile mostly off the beaten path trip to Fish, Clam, explore, Metal Detect and highgrade some old Turquoise mines and dig some Tourmaline and Quartz crystals. I sure could use some help on getting some Hi grade turquoise out of a shaft, I am too old to let my self down in it, its only 20 feet but you have to hang in a Boatswains Chair and chisel it out.

 

[ArizonaWren]

Wow, how time flies. It seams like only yesterday that I started this topic and here I am over year later following up.
Thank you for the great responses and advise.
I too have been enjoying many trips into Mexico without any serious incident from the Law or Lawless. I believe the same cautions that must be taken in Mexico must be taken in the U.S.A. with the exception that I do not bring any guns with me when I travel across the border, just not worth the risk. I have had guns pointed at me in Mexico but only on two occasions and they were unusual circumstances that were easily diffused.
The location I have been talking about isn't secret by any means but it is private. I was curious about the laws concern antiquities because I had the thought there may be some people interested in taking some TH Tours of the area and was looking into what it would take to organize that. Any ideas or advice is always appreciated. If there is anything I can help you with don't hesitate to ask I will be happy to do what I can.
- Wren

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

HI I will be in Az next weekfor a few .Maybe we can get together for coffe and bs?

Tropical Tramp

 

[ArizonaWren]

That would be great, I would enjoy visiting with you. Let me know what your schedule is and we'll find a time to get together.
Travel safe!
- Wren