Metal Detectors - Standards or Snake Oil?

[DeepThought]

Ok...I've got the itch to upgrade already. With the cold weather (...remember the cold weather?), I read more than I dig & look at all those high-speed, low-drag detectors for sale by different companies. Trap is the more I look the less I see: there is no independent evaluator of MD performance other than the company claims. And testimonials are like vacationers to glamours countries: nobody wants to admit they paid good $ to be laid up with diarrhea during their stay. Thinking on it (no pun intended), are cockpit displays of VDI and depth estimates worth the cost .... if I am going to dig-all most of the time anyhow, and the estimates are ... estimates? In the final moments, how useful is discrimination when there is so much overlap between bands? Where's the meat? Actual detection performance (why we are here) of the various targets, under different - though relatively identical - conditions? It seems to this - granted, newbie - that the only way a person has of deciding if a particular MD will suffice is to buy it and try it. Not too efficient... When operating a taxi in NYC is sleek sedan necessary or will that Checker Cab perform just as well for the mission intended....make sense? If The electronics industry is built around standards, interfaces and protocols. Why not MDs? Thanks, all

 

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[spartacus53]

I know squat about detectors, but I do know my cabs The Checker Cab is the mother of all Cadillacs when it comes to taxi's. You can have a small party in the back waiting to arrive your destination. Loved those little jump seats too

You're kinda right as I see it and I mentioned it before. I couldn't care what brand people use so long as you get a tone for metal and you're still able to dig. Yea some machines may out perform others, but at the end of the day it's a hobby, not your living

This is the only hobby where cost savings aren't passed along to the consumer, quite the other way around too. All other electronic equipment has dropped, look at your TV sets... But noooooo, metal detectors are special.. So special in fact they are delivered by those little yellow buses

Stop buying the new crap with more bells and whistles and see the prices fall. It's the nature of supply and demand

P.S. Deepthought, I really put no thought into this post either

 

[Jason in Enid]

You are using a false theory. There are PLENTY of people who will complain that they spent good money on a "junk" detector, even when they never took the time to learn how to use it. You want to know what works? Look at the finds being posted and then look at what detector they used. As long as you stick with the major brands, you typically get what you pay for. Better detectors often have the latest signal processor technology. You don't have to have a Minelab CTX to make good finds though. Buy a solid detector that is designed for the hunting you want to do, then spend a LOT of time swinging and digging. Pay attention to how every target responds and soon you will know whats under the coil before you dig.

 

[cudamark]

If you're looking to "upgrade already", there must be something you don't like about your present detector. If you want more information about what you dig before you dig it, the new, high tech ones will do that better than the older low tech ones. As for which one to choose, talk to other detectorist in your area to see what works good for them in the type of hunting you plan on doing.

 

[ticm]

I think people take all this way to serious. If it beeps dig it or don't. It's just a hobby. It's not rocket science. If your not having fun with it move on to something else. I use the V3i it's the best tector out there because its the one I own.

 

[bill from lachine]

DT,

Try not to wrack your brains to much as to what the the best machine is.....the best machine is probably the one between our ears.....lol....meaning whichever machine you have use it to the fullest and learn what it's telling you by the tones you hear...

The hardest part of detecting is getting your coil over the keepers and deciding whether to dig or not....I've seen some awesome finds made over the years by people using entry level machines....I've made some decent finds using a mid level machine.........some of the high end machines will give you some bells and whistles and maybe a bit more depth...

But you still have to get your coil over the good stuff regardless of what machine you're swinging.

Regards + HH

Bill

 

[Keppy]

I think people take all this way to serious. If it beeps dig it or don't. It's just a hobby. It's not rocket science. If your not having fun with it move on to something else. I use the V3i it's the best tector out there because its the one I own.

...... Yes that is true what ever detector you use and really like that is the best detector out there for you...........And to you in your mind it is the best detector out there............. And it makes no difference what you paid for your detector $200.00 or $2000.00 they all do the same thing find metal ............. And some like to hype up there detectors for they want every one to know they spent big bucks for there detector...................................................................................................................................... And the guy with the big buck detector will say i found a dime at 10 inches................... And the guy with the $300.00 detector will say so did i........... so you see they all find metal no matter what you paid................ And to me the depths they all get with all the charts ones put up..... and there tape measures............. Comes out to almost the same...................................................................................................................... A low cost detector will get more depth than a high priced detector in some soil................ And a high priced detector will get more depth in some different soil................... And some are electronic & computer geeks that love to fool around with there screens and buttons........... And others just like to turn on there detector and hunt..................

 

[Trackerman]

Really depends on how much you got to spend .Theres detectors out there in the thousands or good machines that cost 100.00 .I use a bounty hunter Tracker IV and the dam thing out performs some higher end detectors I've used . So your best bet is spend the least amount you can on a machine and get the one that finds the goods. Reviews reviews reviews is where it's at.

 

[Rawhide]

One possible solution.

Hi Deep Thought, I notice you use a Bounty Hunter, which was my first real detector too. I did a lot of homework and seen a few machines stick out. I wanted better discrimination and depth. I wanted to find the good stuff. Guess what, I find the same stuff, just do it faster now. The new machine is more than I ever expected in a Metal detector. My own expectations was probably a lil too high.

The VLF or Very Low Frequency detectors most of us use are limited by the science. Basically the more you pay, the better the detector. The testers are the people who use detectors. No matter what you decide on, you will have to learn it. But, is a few hundred dollars worth the extra finds? Or the ability to cherry pick signals or depth? I think it is. My picture is of a 2 hour hunt.

I got a good deal on a used machine. Right now thanks to shows like Gold Rush and American Diggers there is a large amount of slightly used machines out there. I see more and more post of how some very sensitive machines that dont work. I suspect the detectors worked fine. You can get a bargain.

Kellyco will let you put most detectors side by side with on the "compare detector" option is one way to look for what you want.

I now use a Fisher F75 ltd and very happy with it. I also suggest the Garret AT Pro which is water proof, and another good choice. My third Choice is Minelab Soviern GT. None of these machines have anything in common, except they produce. Im not putting down any machines, just what I need in my hunt.

I was part of a closed group of folks who bought Red Baron's detectors and modified them. They actually changed the programing and added mods directly to their own detector(vintage). Not something that is necessary now. Some of them helped design most of the detectors being used today.

Whats in the box has took great skill and engineering. I dont know your area, or what you want to do. Most detectors can be used to find nails in wood lol. I like to look for coins, meteorites, cache, relics, and gold nuggets. The F75 will do that to a certain degree. No machine does it all. I have faith in my F75 will do this. I bought this detector and a few coils for my Bounty Hunter from the same person.

I think the standard is set by people who can make and sell the best detector for the job. The snake oil is in the hype. I can tell you what my friends say about the detector they use. This forum does the same thing. You asked a very good question. Maybe we as a forum can say what we like about our machine and if it lived up to the hype?

The F75 has some good points. DEPTH, DEPTH, DEPTH. Pretty good at masked targets. Several modes of hunting, most I dont use. Does it find stuff, yes it does. Light weight, and good on battery's. It is a decent all around machine.

The F75 has some bad points. EMI, it is very sensitive and sometimes you just cant use it. No hunting under high tension wires or by cell towers.......aw darn. Your not gonna find very small gold...... I want big gold anyway. Its not water proof......I live in a desert. I get a lot of dirty looks when I pull it out........I actually like that part.

Good Luck.

 

[webatch]

Deep Thought - I have to agree with other posters here. It is all about learning your machine.

I bought an ACE 350 and thought what a piece of junk... then as I started to learn how to use the machine I found it actually works pretty good. You have to spend the time to learn how your machine works and what it is telling you. I am also thinking of another machine the AT Pro mainly because the AT Pro is water proof and a lot of the places I intend to go are around the water.

I also think it will be easier to induce some of my friends to go detecting if I have a second machine they can use.

Unless you really want to buy another machine spend your time watching the videos in the video section and pay close attention to what the detectors like yours are showing when those folks find differnt types of targets. Another good use of winter time is research. Find old maps or local history material and find old locations that were frequented by people in the past. The real task is to get your detector over the right ground (targets).

P.S. Is it me or is Keppy's avatar HOT - lol

 

[Keppy]

Deep Thought - I have to agree with other posters here. It is all about learning your machine.

I bought an ACE 350 and thought what a piece of junk... then as I started to learn how to use the machine I found it actually works pretty good. You have to spend the time to learn how your machine works and what it is telling you. I am also thinking of another machine the AT Pro mainly because the AT Pro is water proof and a lot of the places I intend to go are around the water.

I also think it will be easier to induce some of my friends to go detecting if I have a second machine they can use.

Unless you really want to buy another machine spend your time watching the videos in the video section and pay close attention to what the detectors like yours are showing when those folks find differnt types of targets. Another good use of winter time is research. Find old maps or local history material and find old locations that were frequented by people in the past. The real task is to get your detector over the right ground (targets).

P.S. Is it me or is Keppy's avatar HOT - lol

.... It is HOT yes sir...

 

[Muddyhandz]

Ok...I've got the itch to upgrade already. With the cold weather (...remember the cold weather?), I read more than I dig & look at all those high-speed, low-drag detectors for sale by different companies. Trap is the more I look the less I see: there is no independent evaluator of MD performance other than the company claims. And testimonials are like vacationers to glamours countries: nobody wants to admit they paid good $ to be laid up with diarrhea during their stay. Thinking on it (no pun intended), are cockpit displays of VDI and depth estimates worth the cost .... if I am going to dig-all most of the time anyhow, and the estimates are ... estimates? In the final moments, how useful is discrimination when there is so much overlap between bands? Where's the meat? Actual detection performance (why we are here) of the various targets, under different - though relatively identical - conditions? It seems to this - granted, newbie - that the only way a person has of deciding if a particular MD will suffice is to buy it and try it. Not too efficient... When operating a taxi in NYC is sleek sedan necessary or will that Checker Cab perform just as well for the mission intended....make sense? If The electronics industry is built around standards, interfaces and protocols. Why not MDs? Thanks, all

The red highlight shows your problem right there!
You don't dig..... you don't get.
Cheers,
Dave.

 

[Rawhide]

Some wander around and dig a lot. Some get the most of the dig time due to the schedule called life. Research does pay off. Pretty sure as anyone digs they get better at it for sure. But I do laugh when on Ebay and you can see the skid marks on a brand new machine that someone threw in frustration. I was convinced my last machine was broke till I got to reading on some setting and causes.

 

[Sandman]

There are no standards as to quality of metal detectors as a lot of personal preferences come into play. I don't like some handles on some detectors but like the way the darn thing works. I used to complain that my AT Pro was no good till a good friend bought me a new production one. Now it works as advertised, but that first impression is still there and I don't trust wasting anymore little time I have left swinging a dud. See my signature below. It is impossible to really compare one to the other because of operator error.

 

[Keppy]

There are no standards as to quality of metal detectors as a lot of personal preferences come into play. I don't like some handles on some detectors but like the way the darn thing works. I used to complain that my AT Pro was no good till a good friend bought me a new production one. Now it works as advertised, but that first impression is still there and I don't trust wasting anymore little time I have left swinging a dud. See my signature below. It is impossible to really compare one to the other because of operator error.

............. Sandman's right there it all comes down to personal preference........What you like ......And my AT Pro was one of the first ones and did not work right..... And i hardly ever use it i don't trust it...

 

[Mzjavert]

Well we humans do like having the biggest, shiniest, newest toys around. But you raise a good point. When you read reviews in magazines it's here's the features and here's all the great stuff we found when we took it out into the field. The magazines have a financial interest in not publishing bad reviews. After-all it's advertising from the MD manufacturers that provides a great deal of their income. This is not to say I believe any magazine would deliberately publish a review that's less than honest. But they could very well choose not to publish a review of a machine that just doesn't cut the mustard.

So you are right, you mostly have to rely on word of mouth (or internet), ads and if a shop is within driving distance actually playing with machines in a dedicated shop. If you are really lucky you have a friend/co-worker/someone you met in the park who is willing to let you try their machine and tell you their experiences with the machine.

I for one would love to see one standardized set of testing requirements, with variations for specific types of machines like salt-water machines and prospecting machines. Such a standarized test should include a test garden in which MD novices and the expert reviewer scan to find let's say 100 objects at various depths. The objects would always be standard for each test and would include pull tabs, coins, jewelry (rings, bundled up necklace, necklace stretched out), can slaw, nails, a ball jar with the bail close lid filled with silver, lead, and I'm sure we could come up with another 90 items or so. The depths for at least 1/2 of the objects would be standard and could vary for each machine being tested, but not for the pro v. amateur test.

How easy/hard it is for a MD rookie to take the instruction manual, read it and watch any videos that come with the machine, and then operate the machine. Impressions after 1 hour in the field and 20 hours would be a fair learning curve.

Have the expert/rookie search the same grounds and see how they do.

If the rookie ends up hitting a tree with the detector...well we'd know that. We'd also know if the rookie refused to give back the machine after the test is over.

Anyway this would allow perspective buyers to have a baseline for comparison. Something especially helpful if you are new to the hobby or haven't looked at new machines in years and years.

 

[DeepThought]

@ Mzjavert - now that sounds like a productive joint project for this community to work during those less active months. All this talent and hardware out here....we could start driving the path ahead instead of following it.

 

[cudamark]

The problem is making an accurate test garden that reflects the real world of metal detecting. Metal objects that have been buried for decades (or centuries) develope a halo around them that will give a different signal than that same item freshly buried. I think a good way of telling success from hype is to see what people are finding with various detectors in their area under various conditions, depths, soils, etc. Get a dozen different detectors and hunt an old area. Have each detector check each target and log the results. We all could do that with our local detecting club meets.

 

[DeepThought]

there would be too much variability in location content, target quantities (size, depth, material, etc) and good old human factor (patience, technique, selection, etc). That is the current problem .... as long as the measurement conditions & methods were equal, detector to detector, they (the results) would be equally in error, as far as the Halo goes. It would stand to reason in order for a MD designer to develop a detector, he would have first have established a means to validate his design performance. Performance: if you can't quantify it you can't qualify it.. and if you can't qualify it, well break out the checkbook and roll the dice.

 

[bill from lachine]

DT,

Yep....the variability is a big factor....about 8 or 10 years ago a metal detecting club did a fairly in depth study using beginner, intermediate and advanced machines and likewise for the experience levels of the users....I wish I had bookmarked it but I didn't.

The VDI/screen was correct approximately 60% of the time.....which explains why myself and lots of other veterans prefer
to go by sound rather than relying on the screen.....I'm looking for those other 40% of the keepers that others have missed....lol.

Regards + HH

Bill