Metal Detacting Alien

[Viddy]

Sometimes I feel like an alien being a metal detectorist...


Located a little over an hour outside Pittsburgh, PA... there are no local metal detector shops/dealers around here. Sucks because you totally have to rely on reviews, opinions, and the roll of the dice for detectors and gear. Pittsburgh, PA is close and a some hardcore detectorists there, who I have met before, and they hunt the hunted out areas and also have fun finding new places, but pretty much, I am on my own in my area.


There are a few 'perks' to being the only detectorist... or maybe one of the few... around my area...


#1 Nothing gets hunted out... I found places that I am sure I am the first person ever there...

#2 Nothing is really 'off limits' or banned from metal detecting around here...

#3 No one really has a clue what you are doing! LOL!


here's a real life example from not too long ago....


I had the County Sherriff come over to me once while in a local park, checking below a dam, where a syrup factory once stood for WWII rations. When he approached, I was like 'uh oh, here we go...'. This is pretty much the transcript... word for word... give or take a work or two... This stuck out, and will stick in my memory....


Sheriff: "You looking for land mines?"

Me: "No. Just coins or old stuff around here. How are you?"

**introductions and hand shake**

Sheriff: "I saw a guy with one of those a while back and wondered if he ever found anything good"

**Show him my ETrac and the basics of it with headphones off**

Me: "Sometimes, but most times not. It's just nice to get out. It's fun just going to places and seeing if you pick up anything good. Want to see how it works? I have a Minelab Etrac metal detector"

Sheriff: "No, no no, I have no idea about all that tech stuff"

Me: "let me ask you Sheriff. It's OK metal detecting in public parks right?

**Sheriff gets a slightly confused look on his face. I wonder if I was too forward**

Sheriff: "Yeah. I guess so. I don't see why not?!? not like your tearing the place up!"

Me: "No. Nor would I. I would never do that."

Sheriff: "These college kids come down here and tear the place up........"

**Sheriff's story about a college party and trucks turfing the park and a fire in the woods....**

Me: "that sucks. That's really a shame"

Sheriff: "I bet you'd find some good stuff in Veteran's Park. You know they used to have some old houses there and places they hid slaves duing the war?"

Me: "I know where that is"

---NOTE: It's a historic park! It's in town and was build up around it!--

Sheriff: "you should try there. I bet you'd find some old good stuff there. That would be a good place!"

Me: "I bet it would be pretty good."

**Sheriff's radio chirps and messages**

Sheriff: "Nice meeting you Mike. Good luck with finding paydirt. I have to go, have a call."

Me: "Nice to meet you Sheriff. Have a good day! Nice meeting you!"


I GUARANTEE.... I had a window detecting of the Sheriff's 'short-term-memory', that I could have went to Veteran's Park.... and tanked the hell out of it with my ETrac.

The place has had ceremonies since the Civil War,and there is actually a small cemetary on it.. and if someone showed up (it is along a few active streets), and said something,...even the local police... I would tell them the 'Sheriff said it was OK, please call him"..

...and I GUARANTEE, that based of the way stuff happened, the conversation, and what he knew about metal detecting, and his demeanor.... he'd give anyone stopping me the "Oh yeah, I remember him! He's OK. I OKed it.."


Like I said... I get looked at like an alien!

 

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[spartacus53]

I had to see where on the map you were Yup, right next to the town of Boondocks, PA

Before you get all giddy about hunting that "historic Park", you best check with the town and see if it's OK. Better safe than sorry. Besides, even if you dropped the sheriff's name and you don't belong digging there, I certain the town made just reward you with bracelets of their own I'm confident that's not the kind of find you want

 

[Tom_in_CA]

spartacus, you say:

"Before you get all giddy about hunting that "historic Park", you best check with the town and see if it's OK. Better safe than sorry"

Huh? What isn't "safe" about getting an ok from the sheriff? Why would anyone argue with a "yes go ahead" from a duly appointed official, that you "safely" asked ahead of time? And where do you get that there is some supposed imminent fear of handcuffs, when he had express permission? Even if someone else DID approach him, and DID overturn his name-dropping say-so, then it's not Viddy that's in any trouble (since he was operating on good faith from the word of the actual law-enforcement themselves). The person who may wish to "appraise him otherwise" would simply take up the issue with that sheriff, not Viddy! Oh sure, if the "yes" got overturned, and if Viddy simply ignored that and continued to go, then sure, perhaps a problem.

But given Viddy's "go ahead", I certainly would not hestitate to hit an old park! Sheesk.

 

[spartacus53]

Tom_in_CA just because he's a sheriff, doesn't mean he knows the law.

Try reading the story again

Sheriff: "Yeah. I guess so. I don't see why not?!? not like your tearing the place up!"

Yeah, I'd be real confident in that reply, especially a guess.. Then again the judge may have a good laugh when he fines you too..

Remember, not knowing the law is no excuse.

 

[Smudge]

Oh, I'd hunt that site in a heartbeat and if anyone said anything, I'd just say "Sheriff So-and-So we talking the other day and he said there was now problem. In fact, he even suggested this place."

90% chance the conversation ends right there.

 

[jeff of pa]

Awsome Viddy !

I Love Small town PA



spart, worst case scenero Sheriff needs to eat his words


if you Don't press for Clarification or Backup,

It's as good as Gospal

Or it's entrapment.

 

[spartacus53]

Viddy, looks like I have to eat my words

But if you do go there to hunt and get a ticket, I'm sure Jeff and Tom will cover it for you

I would have too many concerns digging there without actually knowing if it were OK, especially since it is deemed a 'historical park'. I would rather be safe than sorry, but it's your call

 

[jeff of pa]

Viddy, looks like I have to eat my words

But if you do go there to hunt and get a ticket, I'm sure Jeff and Tom will cover it for you

I would have too many concerns digging there without actually knowing if it were OK, especially since it is deemed a 'historical park'. I would rather be safe than sorry, but it's your call

Spart, say you are standing on the sidwalk
& there is a sign above you that says no jay walking.
a cop walks up says go accross the street & points
accross the street to a cop.

You do it & The cop over there Arrests you
for jay walking.

Your Fault ? For not asking if you should
walk down the Block to the crosswalk First ?
I Think not.

 

[spartacus53]

Jeff, that is not even close to the situation.. The real situation is digging where it may be unlawful to do so. Again, the sheriff was offering a guess at best.

I prefer not taking an assumption as gospel, especially if the park was deemed historical.

I guess it would be OK then if you were in Gettysburg and the sheriff said he had no problem with you digging in the Gettysburg National Park.. Maybe we should try that one and see how it shakes out in court

I'm game, how about you?

 

[jeff of pa]

Jeff, that is not even close to the situation.. The real situation is digging where it may be unlawful to do so. Again, the sheriff was offering a guess at best.

I prefer not taking an assumption as gospel, especially if the park was deemed historical.

I guess it would be OK then if you were in Gettysburg and the sheriff said he had no problem with you digging in the Gettysburg National Park.. Maybe we should try that one and see how it shakes out in court

I'm game, how about you?

Different Scenerio.

You can play Dumb at a Small town Historical Marker,
especially when a Town Sheriff tells you to try it.

A National Park is not run by the Town Sheriff.

If the National Parks Ranger told me to hunt
Gettysburg, You can lay Money on me doing it.
& I'm Not going over his head first.
But I'll know where to throw Blame

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Spart, not meaning to beleager the point, since you said you'll "eat your words".... But yeah, I'll beleager it: There is NOT going to be a "ticket" for Tom & Jeff to cover. And yes, you or Viddy would be "safe" with a sheriff's say-so. How would you "not actually know it's ok", since a sheriff himself (duly appointed for JUST such questions), told you "go ahead"?

If the cop were wrong (and I seriously doubt you'd ever be bothered, unless you were some sort of red-x bullseye that just doesn't know how to pick low traffic times), then someone is welcome to "appraise you differently". You will not be "arrested". You merely cite your authority, and I bet they let you continue. But even if they didn't, the issue is with the other authority who gave you the ok, NOT WITH YOU.

Just curious, where do you find to detect? At what point can in chains of bureaucracy can we accept a "yes", without needing to go higher and higher looking for a "no"?

" .... the sheriff was offering a guess at best. " That's HIS problem, not yours. I mean, heck, ANYONE in authority you ask will be giving you "their opinion", so what?

 

[spartacus53]

Jeff, we may have opened a can of worms

I had to go and brush up on a sheriffs duties... According to Wikipedia, they mention the following.

In the northeastern United States, the sheriff's duties have been greatly reduced with the advent of state-level law enforcement agencies, especially the state police and local agencies such as the county police.

There may be a bit of a gray area as to control.. Still an interesting topic especially if the sheriff, local and state police all get involved in the same matter

I'd still rather be safe, than sorry

 

[jeff of pa]

Jeff, we may have opened a can of worms

I had to go and brush up on a sheriffs duties... According to Wikipedia, they mention the following.

In the northeastern United States, the sheriff's duties have been greatly reduced with the advent of state-level law enforcement agencies, especially the state police and local agencies such as the county police.

There may be a bit of a gray area as to control.. Still an interesting topic especially if the sheriff, local and state police all get involved in the same matter

I'd still rather be safe, than sorry

I'd still rather Quit while I'm ahead,
Instaed of looking for someone to Counter his Word
and say no.

He is still the one who has to answer his authorities,
as long as your Respectfull to all who approach you
& as long as you leave if someone approches you and says
he's wrong.

Only go over a cops head if the cop says you can't
I did that once and got a Yes, & the cops respect.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Oh well, it's all good. Good to bounce ideas and opinions off of each other, to get balanced comment and learn from each other.

 

[fmrUSMC_0844]

I keep telling my wife next time she goes to visit her brother, im going! Hes in Hannastown. I think that is how you spell it. Out by Latrobe and Greensburg. According to my brother in law, he has never seen anyone with a detector around there.

 

[Viddy]

I know exactly where you mean. Latrobe and Greensburg are about 1/2 hour from me. I moved here from about 2 hours on the other side of Pittsburgh, and I think this area of PA is virgin territory for metal detecting. No one even really knows what metal detecting is.
One guy knew what one was though. When I was along the road near the local public park. He drove by slowly and watched, out of curiosity. He rolled down his window and asked 'you from the water department looking for pipes?' I replied 'No. I work for the local dentist and someone lost a gold filling.' he either #1 didn't recognize sarcasm, or #2 thought I was serious. He actually kept watching for about another 10 minutes, and as I hit a penny on ground level and picked it up, he rubber-necked trying to see what it was. LOL

 

[Twisted One]

A simple response to the Sheriff of, "You think it would be okay." Might have made it firm. It would pretty much take a sign at the entrance saying, "No Metal Detecting". To get you in trouble after that. If you are comfortable with claiming you were unsure though.

Myself knowing that it is illegal, would have qualms about it, but according to Tom I'm a wuss when it comes to fear of the law.

 

[maipenrai]

I dont know about the northeast, but in California, the Sheriff IS the county police, there are no other County police, so if their duties were reduced, then all law enforcement outside the cities would be reduced, I dont see it happening. If the sheriff told me I could drive down the wrong side of the road, then I could do it, without worrying about someone else giving me a ticket, the sheriff is the law, and its his job to know it.
Maybe when the sheriff said "I guess", he was probably just talking in a friendly way, and not trying to be official about it.

I dont get it, if you have got permission, whats the idea of trying to find someone higher up, to take away that permission?

 

[spartacus53]

maipenrai, the Northeast is a totally different animal. Although they are county officers, most of their duties have been cut back, leaving the State Police as the Big Kahunas.. I have pulled some information from Wikipedia t better explain.

1- In some states, a sheriff may not be a sworn officer, but merely an elected official in charge of sworn officers

2- The relationship between the sheriff and other police departments varies widely from state to state, and indeed in some states from county to county.

3- In the northeastern United States, the sheriff's duties have been greatly reduced with the advent of state-level law enforcement agencies, especially the state police

4- In some states, a sheriff may not be a sworn officer, but merely an elected official in charge of sworn officers ( I love seeing merely )

Here's a great example. Let's say you are detecting in Connecticut and someone approaches you and says he's the sheriff, and use the rest of the original story above.. You go to the park and the police ask you what are you doing. You tell them proudly, the sheriff said it was OK.. Well, you will get a fine

Note: There are also states in the United States that do not have sheriffs, such as Connecticut.

Remember an officer of the law does not have to wear a uniform to 24/7, but they are obligated to be on-hand at all times. At least for me, the likely hood of me asking him for ID, questioning his authority is out of the question.. I would just move on..

Maybe others would react differently, not me... I don't need to be detained for anything You ask, can something like this happen? Yes, especially if you're in my neck of the woods, that's how I am

I learned years ago to mind my P's & Q's with authority, especially when I saw what happened to a co-worker on the piers years ago. He was stopped by a customs officer, and he started giving the customs officer lip.. Needless to say his car was pulled over to the side to be dismantled.. No lie.

I just don't push my luck

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Here in CA, "sheriff" is merely the same as "police", except that police = inside city limits (ie.: city domain), sheriff = outside city limits (ie.: county domain). Each are still equally "law enforcement", and it beats the heck out of saying "I asked the little girl in the sandbox if I could" Seriously now, whether they are a type of "cop" or an "elected official" (with "merely" attached to it), or whatever, we can ALL agree that they are an "authority", (albeit of a debatable category and hierarchy in the system).

The mere fact that they are an authority at some level, trusted in as having say-so (no matter how ill-informed or sub-level they may be), would mean that: No, you are not going to "get a fine" spartacus. You might be "informed otherwise" or "appraised differently", and your permission "overturned". But trust me: the minute you cite your authority (no matter how mis-informed your authority was), the issue would therefore be with that authority, and you're not going to be "fined". Only if you continued to detect after your being appraised, would you be in some sort of trouble.

Because remember, unlike driving the wrong side of the road, or robbing banks, etc.. (where there's express explicit non-ambiguous rules), detecting is not in the same category. Because quite logically: there are TONS of places that are legal to detect, and it goes on ALL the time, in LOTS of places, with no problems, right? But there are not "tons of places" where it's "perfectly ok" to drive down the wrong side of the street, rob banks, etc...., as laws on those matters are not "ambiguous".