Marx vs The Azores flea.. A hilarious must read

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Treasure Hunting in the Azores-- Lessons in Futility
by Paulo Monteiro, the Azores

I would like to add the story of my life, just for fun and enlightenment of all those interested in underwater archaeology. This way, I might be able to explain why I am a zealot of die-hard archaeology and why all treasure hunters, commercial salvors are my nemesis, in what regards the underwater heritage. In this I go, hand in hand, with Filipe Castro, the ayatollah.
Act I
In 1970, the same year I was born, the Portuguese Government passed down the law 416/70. A very short bill, this law basically said that all wrecks older than 5 years were owned by the State and that any action that regarded them would have to be cleared by the Portuguese Navy.

Now, the Portuguese Navy was getting all worked up in the three African war fronts (Angola, Guinea and Mozambique) in our own Vietnam, and the Portuguese state was being run by the oldest European dictatorship, so wrecks were not really Portugal’s foremost priority. Profiting from this, a very ingenious Briton, Sydney Wygnall, went buddy-buddy with the then Director of Angra Museum, in Terceira Island, Azores, Baptista de Lima, and told him that he wanted to search for the wreck of the Revenge, the famous ship from Elizabethan Navy, bla, bla, that he would bring along TV crews, bla bla, that Terceira would be famous, bla, bla.

And he got it.

In 1972, the Portuguese Navy authorised the first official underwater survey in Portuguese waters. Wignall went to Terceira for 6 months, heavy gear and all and went everyday in the water to search for the Revenge and any Spanish galleon that might appear in the way. Unfortunately for him, one month later, a converted English Navy boat came to Terceira, carrying onboard another English team of treasure hunters. Mike Stewart and John Grattan, from the British Navy and former partners of Wignall had dropped by, to share the booty. Wignall went head over wheels and some shots were even exchanged, and the Portuguese police had to intervene. Grattan made claim to 3 wrecks, containing more than a million sterling pounds worth of silver.

By then, the Portuguese local divers started to complain that, and I quote, "We looked like innocent babies plundering vis-à-vis the British". And it was true: anything lying on the surface, especially in Angra bay, was ransacked – gold chains, silver coins, bronze cannons, everything went to freighters hovering in the island waters, by the covert of the night. When all this was found, the Museum kicked out everybody from the island. Results: a 4.30 meter long culverin was deposited at the museum, a huge quantity of iron cannons recovered from God-knows-where were dropped in the same place are all the visible remains of the 1972 events. No records, no papers, no nothing survives.

End of act one.

Act II
In 1974, the Portuguese had their revolution, on the 25th of April. Coincidentally, two months later, profiting from the chaos, Robert Stenuit went to Porto Santo Island, Madeira Archipelago, and found the remains of the Slot ter Hooge, a VOC ship wrecked there. He dug a big hole and recovered some 100-plus silver bars. All that is left are 3 of those bars in a Porto Santo Museum and a glossy article in the National Geographic Magazine.

End of act two.

Act III
In 1983, (treasure hunter) Robert Marx approaches the Regional Government and, by talking to the right people, manages to have salvage law passed down by the local parliament. Basically, all salvage companies could come down to the Azores, survey and excavate what they would like and the government would keep half of all recovered.

Lisbon then contested the law and the Constitutional Court declared the law illegal. Ten years passed and Marx got smart. Why go to the Angels, when you can speak to God himself. That's what he did. So, Marx knocked on the door of the Portuguese Secretary of Culture, Pedro Santana Lopes, and stated his arguments:

Portugal and the Azores were fantastically rich in shipwrecks. (What shipwrecks? Rich in what sense? Where were they? Questions that nobody asked.)

Portugal was too poor a country to involve itself on the underwater archaeology business, especially when it involved deep-water recoveries (How much money was involved? Why go for deep wrecks? Again, more questions that nobody raised.)

Every day, divers loot and destroy all wrecks accessible to them (Again, what wrecks? Regarding the small community of divers in Portugal, how much was the extent of that looting?)

He, Marx, was the only one capable of having a million dollar submarine driven to the deep, to recover an intact Portuguese carvel, the very one that managed to promote the Portuguese Empire, to raise it and to display it, inside an aquarium, in EXPO 98 (I refrain from commenting this).
And the law 289/93 was passed. Was it because Marx had, as his personal lawyer for Portugal, Rui Gomes da Silva, the legislator that had written the very same law? It was a big joke. So an executive commission was created. Marques Guedes, a maritime law professor was the president and he also was a personal friend of Marx.

In 1994, a bunch of companies had applied to concessions, all over the Azores and Portugal: Robert Marx, Robert Stenuit, Arqueonautas, Seahawk, Bob Cembrola, Jack Kelly, New Era, Graham Hawkes and some minor players.

So, that’s when I, a humble teacher from Terceira, read in the local newspaper that a Mr. Robert Marx was coming down to Angra to, I quote, "harvest some of the gold and silver, lost by the Portuguese and Spanish galleon wrecks, and to deliver some of that bullion to the Azoreans".

Robert Marx, I asked, who is this guy?

A month earlier, I had, as a diver, reported the find of a nucleus of 3 iron cannons to the local museum. It was decided then to create a task force to search for, research and document historical wrecks in the Azores. By then, we were at zero level of information, regarding any knowledge of underwater archaeology, treasure hunting or whatever.

Then, a click happened. I found out, in the local library (and this was a miracle, I can assure you, the Azores are pretty much out in their own slow, quiet, retarded world) the complete two-book report on the Padre Island wreck. That was when I found out that even cockroaches are important in archaeology, that a gold bar not more valuable than proper historical research, that gold sometimes is more of a nuisance than a nice artefact to have sitting at the bottom of the sea.

So, I’ll be forever grateful to Barto Arnold and all the good people that wrote those books for – to quote someone famous – showing me the logical path of truth.

Anyhow, this all happened in November 1994. I started around completely lost, so I tried to see if anyone was working in underwater archaeology in Portugal. It turned out that a small bunch of people, associated with the Portuguese National Archaeology Museum was doing some work, since 1985. They had formed a small, understaffed, underpaid, mostly volunteer and I will do it over the weekend team.

So, unaware of what I was about to uncover, I knocked at the door of the National Museum's director, Francisco Alves and him, not knowing me from anywhere, opened his doors and archives to a perfect stranger.

That was when I found out that treasure hunting was, indeed, a world of its own, with cloak and dagger tricks, lobbying interests and dark activities hidden to the common mortal.

I submerged in all the newspaper clippings and books, all over my X-mas vacations of 1994. And I got greedy. For the next 2 years, I searched, I swapped, I begged for more material, more clippings, more reports, more personal letters, more books. All that material served to compile a huge personal index, a Dark versus White archive, where most of you, active people, are indexed, be it treasure hunters or archaeologists.

And interesting patterns emerged out of it. Not knowing the people involved in the underwater field, and having no one knowledgeable to discuss names with, I had to rely on the work that people had done. So, if anyone had ever associated with Marx, it was the most perfect way to enter the black list.

That’s how Greg Stemm and Seahawk ended on the wrong side of the list. If any archaeologist had associated with treasure hunters, lending them credibility, they would end up like Duncan Mathewson, on the dark side of the moon. And I couldn't care less about how good their work was or how much they had accomplished, it is (and in the end, it will always be) a question of ETHICS.

So, I discovered that the Rebikoff Foundation, working from Fayal Island at the time, with ROV and a submersible had associated with the Real Eight Company, owned by Kip Wagner and directed by Bob Marx, in 1972. One more for scrap. Now, they can't even get a permit to swim around the pool. I applied, to all the candidates, an old Portuguese saying "Tell me with whom you hang around, I will tell you who you are". I know that things are not always white and black, most are even grey, but heck, what can you do, all alone and in a Mexican stand-off?

And a Mexican stand-off, it was. Because, we're studying each other. The contenders weren't getting anywhere. On the red corner we had Marx and his connections, all the Portuguese navy admirals, the Portuguese heir to the Crown throne, two major Portuguese banks, a German financial institute, some major salvage corporations, the Portuguese guru of maritime law, the secretary of culture, the conservative party (then in majority and in power), the prime minister, the crème de la crème of the Portuguese jet set and nobility, Margaret Rule, John Grattan, the leading Portuguese oceanographer and a couple of minor players.

On the blue corner, there was Francisco Alves, Jean-Yves Blot, me, the Angra Museum, Filipe Castro, some good people from the navy, a couple of divers and people associated with Ocidente, an association from Peniche (like Francisco Oliveira), people from Arqueonautica Centro de Estudos... just a handful of people, really. It was a no-win situation, for us. After all, the law was already in effect.

But I went to the Cultural Director from the Azorean Government and I was such a zealot that he was convinced. And the Azores fought back.

And we went to every newspaper, every TV channel, and every local radio, to everyone patient enough to hear us. And we showed them pictures of Marx, with a Thompson machine gun, aboard his boat, the famous 'macho' stand of the successful treasure hunter. We showed them all the accusations against Marx, a hot trail of scams and corruption and plunder in Brazil, France, Bermuda, and Spain. We showed them how bad he was and we were, with his unknown help, very good at it.

We proved that the Arqueonautas, SA, had hired the same John Grattan of the Terceira 1972 famous shooting event as an operational director, even though they had the so famous Margaret Rule as an invited archaeologist. We showed Portugal how Marx had the legislator as his personal lawyer. We told everything. And we gave thanks to God that treasure hunters had sold us the very rope that we were now using to hang them.

And we didn’t stop in Portugal. We went to the New York Times, to the UNESCO, to all the credible institutions all over the world and we cried ’murder’. We told them that the Portuguese underwater heritage was in danger. And they believed us. And the government was afraid to go on, because the voice of too many people was adamant and was showing that we were no longer a third world country.

And we did better:

We went to every archive, to every document available and we started a list of shipwrecks. Now, we knew what we were talking about. So, when Marx came to us and did his monologue of how good he was, and how he had all the Sonars and Subs capable of reaching 2 kms deep, I laughed and asked him "why do you want, then, to go and search in Angra Bay, that is only 60 meters deep?"

And then he said that he also wanted to go and search for the 'Chagas', the richest wreck in the whole wide world, and I laughed again and told him that if we wanted to search for a ship that blew up in a thousand pieces, in a 1,5 km deep sea, in a million square miles area, then by all means he could be my guest. And then he got mad, and red and angry and he blew up, like ol' Bob Marx so cuddly knows how to do, and he told me, and I quote, "You don’t own the ocean. I have enough money to buy this f*****g island and kick you out of here" and I replied "Although a flea cannot stop a train, it can cause a lot of itch to its driver".

And so it went. They tried to bribe me, they bodily threatened me (and Filipe, and the Cultural Director for the Azorean Government, for that matter), they managed to have Alves fired as the National Museum director (they even tried to legally sue him into silence), but the tide was turning. Because, everybody knew what it was all about. It was about investors, gold, silver and pearls. It was about influence and knowledge.

And then we went to the political opposition that used our arguments to fight the government. And then they won the 1995 elections! Oh, God, and they won with my vote. It was the best of times.

But they tried to kick back and they tried to give the concessions on the last day of power, but we pulled every string, we went directly to the new prime minister and had the new minister of Culture break down their meeting and suspend the whole process. And one year latter, a new law, a proper law was passed. So bye bye, treasure hunters, go back to Florida and the more than ransacked 1733 fleet wrecks, you’ll always be persona non grata in Portugal, that's what we said. As for the Azores, nothing pleases me more than refusing permit requests. I’ve done that about a dozen times since 1996, and it thrills me every time I do it.

So, in the end, it is always better to have someone to teach us how to fish, than it is to have someone throw us a fish, regarding that, for every fish that we would get, a dozen more would go away. I will always cherish Bob Marx quote, in the Jean Michel Eriau book "Le tresor des Homards Verts", stating that, underwater, the diver is his own boss, he takes what he wants and gives to the surface guys, what is less valuable.

Was it worth it?
Well, in 4 years we’ve got two complete underwater teams, both in mainland Portugal and in the Azores, fully equipped. We’ve excavated in the mainland 5 new wrecks, we’ve organized an International Symposium on Underwater Archaeology, Filipe is now taking a PhD in Nautical Archaeology at INA, Texas and I’ll be following his steps next year.

In the Azores, two INA surveys have been made, 2 wrecks have been fully excavated, while 9 more have been identified and researched. It has been a slow process, some mistakes have been undoubtedly made on the way, but I can assure you that we are better off.

Deep wrecks, NR-1, Nautile, JIM suits?

– What for, if 90% of all the Azorean wrecks are no deeper than 40 meters?

And the best of not having a for-profit policy, is that now we can excavate the 5000-plus wrecks in the mainland, Azores and Madeira that were not carrying treasure on board. If we would be looking for silver, not even a single Roman wreck, nor Angra D or C, would have been excavated.

In compensation, we have Angra B, a 5 meter deep Spanish wreck inside Angra Bay, still sealed at ballast level, from where dozens of silver doubloons and gold rings have appeared, in the survey an monitoring trips we conduct there.

Are we going to excavate it and recover all that treasure?

– No, we are not.

We will wait for a better time when we have the right people and a fully strategy all laid out. If we can’t have it in my life span, hell, it can wait – after all, it has been there for almost five centuries.

There, I’ve vented and now you all know that I will always be a guerrilla warrior at heart.

Paulo Monteiro
underwater archaeologist on the Azores

Further reading
Mr Monteiro is active at the Centro de Arqueologia Subaquática dos Açores (CASA).
 

To me, this reads like another fine example of salvors trying to work together with archeologists, and the archeologists cutting off their nose to spite their face. A lot more of those artifacts would be in little Paulo's hands and in museums where they could be studied and viewed by the public if he would get off his high horse and sign a contract or two with reputable salvors. He states that they know of a ship, that they might not get to in his lifetime...this stuff doesn't last forever, you archie types DO know this right? One good hurricane and your intact ballast pile could be scattered for miles. A mere citezen like me thinks you would be wise to get what data you can...WHILE you can. But Nooooo, that would let the evil treasure hunters have some fun...and we must stop that, even if it comes at the price of loosing artifacts forever. Something is dreadfully wrong with archeological education if that is how they are sending you guys out to "preserve" our history. You would rather let it rot at the bottom of the sea than let a salvage company make a little money for doing all the hard work. I wonder has Paulo looked in a mirror lately??? Who is destroying history here???

Guess what, I've met a few real A**hole archeologists in my life...but that doesn't mean that I automatically hate someone just because they are an archie. This is what Paulo is doing..he had one bad experience, therefore ALL treasure hunters and salvors are worthless scoundrels and must be stopped. I'm sure he considers himself quite the scholar, but it appears to me that he is an over-opinionated, short sighted kinda guy. Am I wrong here?
 

no you are definately not wrong... comments like "So bye bye, treasure hunters, go back to Florida and the more than ransacked 1733 fleet wrecks" and "As for the Azores, nothing pleases me more than refusing permit requests. I’ve done that about a dozen times since 1996, and it thrills me every time I do it" shows just how biased against salvage people this guy is. A perfect example of the other thread which covers how "salvage" has become a dirty word.

I dont know this guy, but im with you Scuba Finder.
 

That is an old story. It has been around for a while.

The last laugh may be on Paulo and Felipe. I recently received information that RS Operations (a treasure hunting company), has received permission to salvage wrecks in the Azores.

This is a direct quote:

The creation of Azores Deep Water Archaeology, LLC and the associated Investment Offering of Class B “Member” Units has been initiated by RS Operations, LLC as the preferred method for capitalizing Phase II of this venture. RS Operations, LLC and Azores Deep Water Archaeology, LLC will collaborate in the search for shipwrecks within the territorial waters of the Azores.
 

I for one will laugh heartily :D Thanks for the update Tom!
 

He's griping about Bob Marx...I've read a lot of books by and about Bob, and everything I've read states that he uses sound archeological practices and gives the local govt. their due. I'm far from the most well-read guy on shipwrecks, but I've never seen anything written that Bob Marx was a thief. If someone were ROBBING the wrecks off of Florida, I would be pissed at THAT ONE INDIVIDUAL, no matter what country they hailed from. But I wouldn't assume that all foreigners were thiefs. This is the formula I see Paulo using for his opinion of treasure hunters...if anyone should be chastised about forming opinions, it should be Paulo!!!
 

as your posts says... a "foreiner with permits" has just as much rights to salvage for gold in florida as me (a true floridian). Im no hater.
 

Hell Cornelius, We don't even have the rights anymore to wrecks within our own territorial waters, in our own "backyard" so to speak.
 

rut ro....INCOMING!!!!!!

(gdaddyflex is ducking!)
 

That was a very reserved answer Cornelius...much like Tom, I was ducking :D

I never question your knowledge or experience...after Belize, I will accept your opinions...nuff said. I'm more specifically referring to Bob Marx...as his was the only name I heard mentioned. If there were really guys stealing the gold from the Azores without any record, then those individuals should have been stopped. But to shun any and all treasure hunters who come along later, because of a few unsrupulous individuals is still short sighted in my book. To me, half the fun is logging where you found everything, trying to discern the scatter patterns, and preserving what history you can from a site. But by Paulo's standards, I would NEVER be allowed on site, even though I would follow all laws and due archeological process. I take that a bit personally, because I am grouped into the "thief" category automatically, and my permit denied on Paulo's whim. I'll stick to my initial interpretation of his hate of treasure hunters in general...

Jason
 

As Tom says this is old stuff, but Paulo is still very very active in the dark side of the force, his Darth Vader style of dealing with salvors in legendary as is his mentor Filipe Castro. I doubt that anyone can change his views to moderate him, in fact just to mention Bob Marks in the same paragraph as Paulo adds you to his long list of adversaries.

For the guys who have been around for a while and were readers of, or members of subarch we all remember too well his constant attacks on TH's.

Indeed he is still at it, I just deleted two emails I recieved this week from him where he is searching for more information to attack salvors and TH's worldwide. His intent is to split the world into Archaeologists and TH's with them having all the cards. Alienate museums that show the artifacts recovered by salvors and isolate any archaeologist that dares to help salvors. All very sad.

Paulo does do very good research and often in his rantings lets go some good info, check out this site.

http://nautarch.tamu.edu/shiplab/indexacores.htm

While I think he is misguided in his opinions and methods his heart started out in the right place, unfortunately he has become the self elected political archaeologist for the world with no one to govern or restrict him.

The Azores will be very difficult to do anything as long as he is in power even if there is a permit, he still rules the roost there.

Fortunately the world is a big place and there are plenty of ships still out there. But as long as there are people like Leigh Bishop and Brad Sheard spoling things, life will only get harder for us, and fuel the dark side of the force.
 

Good thread I've enjoyed it. One thing is that without Thunters searching, how many wrecks would still be undiscovered? Look at NC, Intersal found the Queen Ann's Revenge while looking for the El Salvador and turned it over to the state. It has been a great opportunity for many fledgling archaeologists; East Carolina University, UNC-Wilmington, and Cape Fear Community college have all lended a hand on this one and I'm sure have benefited greatly. Also the Henrietta Marie is a perfect example.

My point is that without the private sector initiating the finds, who else has the budget and manpower to begin the process.
 

This is Filepe's latest queat as of this week.

Howdy!

I am trying to gather information on the destruction of archaeological sites
fueled by the antiques market, and I am bookmarking the more serious
websites that deal with this subject (such as
http://www.savingantiquities.org/).

I am not yet looking at bibliography, although I have read the paper
indicated in "The Medici Conspiracy", by Christopher Chippindale and David
Gill (AJA (2000) 104.3:463-511), which I recomend to everybody.

Anybody has a particular website or book or journal?

Thank you so much!

Filipe
 

That's just the point Brad, Paulo and Filipe do not have the money or equipment to do a good excavation job so they covered up the Angora C and D to preserve it "in situ." Then, they get jealous when a foreigner finds silver and gold. Their wrecks had only bits of rotten wood, pottery and shoes to preserve. Portugal doesn't have any enterprising adventurers that want to salvage wrecks in the Azores. What Paulo wants to do is socialize the wrecks and make them all property of the state but yet he comes here to learn archaeology. He should go home!
 

OK! I have to weigh in, in defense of Bob Marx! I just have to say that in my humble opinion, Bob has done more in the name of recording and preserving underwater history than any archaeologist I have ever met. Yes he made some money along the way and is not embarrassed to admit it. SOMEONE! Please tell me whats the problem with making money while doing what you love doing (searching for, finding, recovering and preserving underwater history)? It's the American way and we call it Capitalism. I am a TREASURE HUNTER and damn proud.

Wreckdiver1715 and Bob Marx
 

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It doesn't look like that size 38 belt I gave Bob 30 years ago will fit anymore. :)
 

I have seen and heard a lot of people talking smack about Bob Marx.

I have an acquaintance who knows him quite well, and I asked him recently what he thought of him.

I was told that, while Pirate would be an apt description (even Marx enjoys that name), Bob Marx is a wealth of knowledge and experience. He is also a very good guy. A lot of fun to hang out with. He is personally responsible (probably) for more wrecks being documented than any other single person.

Some say that he doesn't care about the history, only the money. Just look at the titles of some of his articles:

"Shipwrecks should belong to the state so valuable data will be preserved"

"Why Cádiz must be saved"

"The Disappearing Underwater Heritage"

I'm not here to defend Bob Marx (I don't know him personally), but just passing on some information.

Best,

Mike
 

Cornelius, we are disputing the contents of the article, not your posts. You make good points, and everyone on this forum respects your knowledge and experience...but... Bob Marx got more that just a mention in Paulo's article, he was portayed as the ringleader of thieves and scoundrel's with absolutely no regard for history and archeology. Paulo may be a great guy, but he lost me the moment he started bending the truth about Marx. After marking Bob as the enemy, anyone (even people in Paulo's field) were shunned just for being associated with Marx. Since Marx called himself a "Treasure Hunter", then all TH'rs were also the enemy...we call that bigotry where I come from.

I rarely disagree with you personally, but I equate Paulo to a juvenile zealot with WAY more opinions than education...most of his opinions are other peoples opinions (Felipe) but not based in fact. In reality, it just gets under my skin the way he paints Bob and any other treasure hunter...he obviously knows little about us. In this article, his mouth and pen don't seem all that concerned with factual knowledge in the first place...so I guess I shouldn't be suprised.

To turn his own "wit" against him, I offer this:

So bye bye Paulo, go back to the Azores and watch your wrecks waste away at the bottom of the ocean until you can get to them. I'll be in Florida where we work together to bring up artifacts, preserve and study them, and put them on display so the people who are all a part of that history can enjoy them.

I'm done being bent out of shape by Paulo's ramblings, they aren't worth the time. End of Rant :)
 

Hi subscrbers,
It is strange, before Paulo scream all over forums to defend its point of view.
As Cablava says, he received e-mails from Paulo last October/November. I could not find any life signal from Paulo.
What happen with him ??? Anybody knows ??
 

archaeologists = licensed treasure hunters
 

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