P
phxAZ
Guest
Hi... I forgot to bring the camera I left on the table... next time I am in the area I will photograph them. I have seen them so many times over the years I can describe them fairly well though for now.
In an area between Christpher Creek and Heber-Overgaard (Rim Country, AZ), ~7,500ft elevation, there is a small creek that barely runs unless there has been a bunch of rain (but usually always standing pockets of water). I've been there countless times growing up and to the cliff in question.
The area is not undiscovered by any means, there is a camp ground that is occassionally used near there (albeit not often as it is a rough forest road to get back to). The cliff/cave (above 15 ft deep) is fairly easy to be seen if you are on the stream. What is immediately noticable when you get close is it is "burnt out", with soot collected to the roof. I've always known about the markings but until my interest in MD I've never given it much thought.
The markings always seemed kind of fake looking, like way too stereotypical, but I decide what the heck right. I never really messed around in the cliff because there was always knats and thought it was an ideal den for a large animal to bring its catch back to and didn't want to be it.
Well I was up there, and looked again. For the first time I noticed the ceiling had been carved out to make a chimney of sorts. Now this is solid rock, and the height is such you have to kneel in it. The hole is about 2 ft wide and goes up quite a ways. It is about as round as one could make a hole in rock without the assistance of machines.
I waved the MD around, found a hit on a little fragment of iron, but in the process found a fragement of pottery. On the outside it was offwhite with a brown/red paint for the design (angled intersecting lines of sorts). Now I'm thinking I don't want to be up here with a MD now that I think this might actually be legit (between the chimney and the pottery fragment)... so I merely sweep around a bit and don't get any hits and decide to go back some other time without the MD or shovel so I don't get nailed if it were a site warranting protection.
Now for the markings... they are carved into the rock, making the markings appear quite while against the stone and placed the soot had collected (not noticing any soot covering the markings in the last 12 years leads me to believe no fire has been lit in there in recent time).
On the left side, there is the following, each symbol measuring about 6 inches tall, and the width of the "stroke" about 3/4". They have very good detail for being carved into rock as far as I'm concerned. I am using a pound sign (#) to seperate the symbols:
Bird Symbol with Rain Over it (standing bird) # Lightning Bolts # Sun # Can't remember the one...
The right side is the one that got my wheels turning because of the very last symbol:
Standing Bird (no rain) # Cross (looks like a plus sign those, all sides equal, and it is a double outline of a plus sign, not the a solid plus sign) # Cross Shovels
That last symbol is what made me think of treasure, and if this were Indian markings, it had to be the era of miners. I also believe this symbol was used in some currency or bars?
There is also a couple segments of smaller markings, used with a much thinner tool, almost sliced in. I didn't memorize those, but they were "grouped" kind of in a single picture of representation.
So my question is... does this mean anything of significance to TH? Again, I'll get pics on my next visit in the next couple weekends.
In an area between Christpher Creek and Heber-Overgaard (Rim Country, AZ), ~7,500ft elevation, there is a small creek that barely runs unless there has been a bunch of rain (but usually always standing pockets of water). I've been there countless times growing up and to the cliff in question.
The area is not undiscovered by any means, there is a camp ground that is occassionally used near there (albeit not often as it is a rough forest road to get back to). The cliff/cave (above 15 ft deep) is fairly easy to be seen if you are on the stream. What is immediately noticable when you get close is it is "burnt out", with soot collected to the roof. I've always known about the markings but until my interest in MD I've never given it much thought.
The markings always seemed kind of fake looking, like way too stereotypical, but I decide what the heck right. I never really messed around in the cliff because there was always knats and thought it was an ideal den for a large animal to bring its catch back to and didn't want to be it.
Well I was up there, and looked again. For the first time I noticed the ceiling had been carved out to make a chimney of sorts. Now this is solid rock, and the height is such you have to kneel in it. The hole is about 2 ft wide and goes up quite a ways. It is about as round as one could make a hole in rock without the assistance of machines.
I waved the MD around, found a hit on a little fragment of iron, but in the process found a fragement of pottery. On the outside it was offwhite with a brown/red paint for the design (angled intersecting lines of sorts). Now I'm thinking I don't want to be up here with a MD now that I think this might actually be legit (between the chimney and the pottery fragment)... so I merely sweep around a bit and don't get any hits and decide to go back some other time without the MD or shovel so I don't get nailed if it were a site warranting protection.
Now for the markings... they are carved into the rock, making the markings appear quite while against the stone and placed the soot had collected (not noticing any soot covering the markings in the last 12 years leads me to believe no fire has been lit in there in recent time).
On the left side, there is the following, each symbol measuring about 6 inches tall, and the width of the "stroke" about 3/4". They have very good detail for being carved into rock as far as I'm concerned. I am using a pound sign (#) to seperate the symbols:
Bird Symbol with Rain Over it (standing bird) # Lightning Bolts # Sun # Can't remember the one...
The right side is the one that got my wheels turning because of the very last symbol:
Standing Bird (no rain) # Cross (looks like a plus sign those, all sides equal, and it is a double outline of a plus sign, not the a solid plus sign) # Cross Shovels
That last symbol is what made me think of treasure, and if this were Indian markings, it had to be the era of miners. I also believe this symbol was used in some currency or bars?
There is also a couple segments of smaller markings, used with a much thinner tool, almost sliced in. I didn't memorize those, but they were "grouped" kind of in a single picture of representation.
So my question is... does this mean anything of significance to TH? Again, I'll get pics on my next visit in the next couple weekends.
![:-\](https://www.treasurenet.com/smilies/undecided.gif "Undecided :-\")
