Maps ? Youve got to be kidding.

[itmaiden]

Maps ? You've got to be kidding.

Well, the elusive of the elusive made a subtle appearance. That famed treasure everyone would like to find.

At least, I believe I am on to it. The one thing about maps...they are not consistent with "other maps", and the one thing about historical data...is it is too often mis-interpreted - mis -understood.

But that is okay. I hope to prove my point this coming week.

Wish me luck mateys ! If this pans out, I know a salvage company or two that needs to hire me to locate their wrecks rather than spend all that time and money on those fancy machines.

Research I hope will pay off here.

So would anyone like to share their experiences with "maps" ?

itmaiden

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

A History of Mining on the Kenai Peninsula, Alaska - Grab it through Amazon!

[ivan salis]

Re: Maps ? You've got to be kidding.

yep used a pair of old maps --one in english made in * nov of 1769 * ---the other a french language "copy" that was made in 1778 to assist me in finding the exact wrecksite of my 1715 era treasure fleet rescue and recovery barcalonga wreckin nassau sound --off amelia island the first one I found was the 1778 french language "copy" hanging on the wall of fernandina ,florida museum over all those years it hung there --- no one ever looked closely and noticed the french word for "shipwreck" on it but me -----on the french version ---happily it gave credit to the earlier "english map maker " of the "original" map of nov of 1769 which the frenchman had copied --which I then tracked down --the french version had the exactly the same "facts" as the english one --- but I just wanted to "double" check it for myself on the english version.

 

[old man]

Re: Maps ? You've got to be kidding.

itmaiden, Good Luck and let us know how you make out this week. I know of a couple of treasure hunting companies that could sure use someone that knows how to find treasure.

 

[itmaiden]

Re: Maps ? You've got to be kidding.

Well that was a good splash in the face wasn't it ? Talking about the obvious staring at you...
Good thing you looked for another copy as well. But any historical map can be a copy of another map or a copy of a copy, and some are real....but then you have those "fake" treasure maps out there.
But being in a museum or if it is in a University collection makes it a good bet though not always. Still it can be better than nothing to work with. Unfortunately, Florida "beat you to the site" didn't they ?

So if Florida cannot afford or hire the manpower to salvage the treasure, then they will just "confiscate all the treasure territory" ha ha...
Strategic move huh? Maybe they are just holding that area until "Spain" can legally maneuver something. If they were smart, they would let you go ahead and salvage and take their 25% before Spain does find a way to get at the treasure.

There are quite a few "historical" maps available on the Internet now. Texas has a huge depository. The problem with Internet maps is that the imaging quality is often poor and the image size so reduced, you cannot read the writing.

But if someone has a good University or Museum in their area, it can be worth the drive. Just call first to find out what is in their collection.

itmaiden

yep used a pair of old maps --one in english made in * nov of 1769 * ---the other a french language "copy" that was made in 1778 to assist me in finding the exact wrecksite of my 1715 era treasure fleet rescue and recovery barcalonga wreckin nassau sound --off amelia island the first one I found was the 1778 french language "copy" hanging on the wall of fernandina ,florida measeum over all those years it hung there --- no one ever looked closely and noticed the french word for "shipwreck" on it but me -----on the french version ---happily it gave credit to the earlier "english map maker " of the "original" map of nov of 1769 which the frenchman had copied --which I then tracked down --the french version had the exactly the same "facts" as the english one --- but I just wanted to "double" check it for myself on the english version.

 

[itmaiden]

Re: Maps ? You've got to be kidding.

You are right about that. I located a great find a few weeks ago as obvious as daylight. There is a salvage company salvaging nearby the area, and the efforts have been going on for a few years here. They said "we cannot locate the other parts of the ship".
You know the old saying..."If it had been a snake it would have bit them". So here I was looking at this and laughing...right out in open water, great visibility area and wondering...just how far away from their main salvaging site did they really look ?
And what criteria are they using to find the rest of the wreck ? Now I would like to go pluck "this" right out of the water, but I have to check to see if it is in their 1 mile zone. Anyway, those "blowhole" trail theories ....someone really doesn't understand the ocean or hurricanes do they ? Blowhole trail theory may work for a ship or 2 but it isn't going to work for all of them.

As expensive as exploration and salvaging is, not to mention the time involved, one would think that any salvage company professionally equipped or "a hope to get lucky one" would utilize as many research resources that are available.

Now I won't say I utilize every possible detail 100%, but even with "amateur diligence" there is a lot to be found.
My recent worked on project totally shifted my TH priorities for this next trip. My list of areas to hunt is a long one, and one I have worked on hard. It is just a matter of what I want to find first and what is most expedient and economical for me at the moment.

Yesterday I had high hopes for good visibility this week. Today, somewhat cloudy ....but I can get started anyway.

itmaiden

itmaiden, Good Luck and let us know how you make out this week. I know of a couple of treasure hunting companies that could sure use someone that knows how to find treasure.

 

[itmaiden]

Re: Maps ? You've got to be kidding.

Knowing the local area and starting with historical maps and local history is a good start for finding any treasure. But there are many many kinds of maps and they all serve a different purpose. What maps you use depends on where you are planning to hunt and what you are planning to hunt. Many on the board go to Google earth, and that is all good and fun and sometimes helpful (but I will say I have caught Google cheating and "painting in" what they didn't really capture on camera). NASA has been giving them lessons in the art of land/water touch-ups.

Okay, we all know about Google, and many Terra Server. There are aerial maps, satellite maps, topography maps...the historical maps...
but there are also many kinds of government maps, military maps, nautical maps, surveying maps.....industry maps of various sorts.

Don't limit yourself and don't be too lazy. You are going to need surgery on that right shoulder spending lots of wasted time swinging that MD. You can get lucky and find that random coin or 2, but not all beaches are going to yield everything if you are a coastal TH.

I also like to hunt "nice rocks". Now that is a area of research with some very different dynamics.

Think "Dynamics" of any environmental area you are in.

Historical Data: Each and every word you read can have great importance. Americans like to "gliss" quickly over their reading material and they miss important details. It is just like law. And many attorneys do not know this by the way, judges too.
When a law is legislated, each and every single word is important to the proper meaning and interpretation. A really good attorney or appeals or federal attorney will use this to their advantage on argument. Very helpful especially when judges are trying to "legislate from the bench" (Also, get the committee notes that were used by the legislature, as they will give you a better scope on the intent of the law)

A woman once taught me that if I look at a sentence or a paragraph and cannot stop and give a meaning, a definition for each and every word then I truly do not understand what I am reading. Wow, what a thought huh ? (Try that sometime) And that can be true in many cases, though not all.

So when you are reading Historical Data, are you capturing each word in it's fullest sense ? If you are reading something more ancient such as the "Archives of the Indies" in the "Old Spanish" do you understand the culture and the "time period" enough to know how to properly interpret what you are reading? The same is true of any archaeological find.

We cannot always know all things from the past, but that is where we can boost our understanding, by reading each word carefully and really thinking about what is being said.

Now gov't documents can be very wordy as can be those from academia. I skim through these for key points, and concentrate on the area that really has something to say. But sometimes in all that "bull" there is just "one word" that has so much significance it can totally change the picture of the entire document. I find this often the case on "global", UN and EU related material. Your definition of a word may not be their definition and you better have more background to understand.

Don't overlook other historical resources. Bits and pieces of important information to your search can be present in other subject matters. Not everything is going to shout "This is the spot to find the 1715 fleet ship "The Capitana !"
Or for Arkansas diamonds "Go to the Crater of Diamonds State Park" !(Did you know there are actually 6 known diamond craters in Murfreesboro, Arkansas ? And did you know diamonds have also been found in adjacent counties ?) bet you didn't.
One of my best information sources for Arkansas Diamonds was actually some corporate documents from some mineral investing companies that were not prolific in their existence. Also there were some interesting state documents from the Arkansas Geological Survey.

With hard work and patience I also located a map showing 5 civil war campsites, 4 of them not well known at all, and one of them partly known of. It was just a little handdrawn map in a historical book. I am not trying to be self serving or brag here, but trying to encourage you to do more in the area of research. Go to the library historical book section. Just take care not to damage the materials. (And don't steal them)

Nothing is more disappointing than wasting a day finding nothing. And it is going to happen to the best researched persons as well because Treasure can be elusive. But it's more fun to know more and to understand the history and more convenient to narrow down the search. Unless of course, you reallly like getting your arm sore and tired.

I was so excited last night when I posted. So many pieces of information have come my way this last week. I'll give you an example.

Located some "maps" won't tell you the source or what type, however, at first glance I thought "what am I looking at...is it such and such ?" But sitting here staring at it, going away, looking at something else then coming back, I realized what I was seeing were "ballast stones" and their scatter pattern. Now it was just this "scatter pattern" that I was interested in. They were from 2 wreck sites that are already being salvaged, one off of Hutchinson Island, and the other off of another area. My interest was the scatter pattern to see where I could maximize an MD hunt to my advantage.

Same thing with alluvial deposits for gold and gems. Look for "wash" patterns, land erosion patterns, sand or earth shifts, the direction of hill or mountain formation....all important details to improve the odds of finding something.

The Spanish were very skilled at knowing what type of environmental clues to look for. The Spanish used to have a small silver mine in Searcy, Arkansas. If you have even been there you would never have suspected silver in that area. But they knew how to find it. Sure it always pays to have a shortcut method, like some Indian having some gold ornaments or something, but the Spanish understood "environment", and made many maps to prove it.

So utilize other maps of other types in your search.

itmaiden

 

[ivan salis]

Re: Maps ? You've got to be kidding.

the important clue that lead to me IDing what my wreck site in nassau sound actually was***** (many research people due to 1715 items being found in the area of nassau sound in error thought ithe vessel was a missing "original" 1715 fleet vessel in the sound ) the key to it was in the letter of oct 24th of 1715 * from the govenor of virginia (alexander spotswood) to the british home sec.(stanhope) --in a P.S. type--note at the bottom of the letter.--govenor sporswood clearly spelled out the details of the wreck and what it was-- ***vessel type (barcalonga) *****where from (sent from havana)-- what she was doing ****(sent to the fleet wrecksites to pick up vips and treasure---so while not part of the "original 1715 fleet"--- she was still carrying 1715 fleet type items!!!) what happed to her (is likewize cast away) where *****about 40 miles north of st augustine (nassau sound)

spotswood had a very good spy network and worked with english silver pirates as well.

 

[itmaiden]

Re: Maps ? You've got to be kidding.

That was absolutely a Great source, and one that I found interesting. Very educational all of it.
This fleet was cursed obviously when even the salvage ships or alleged "salvage" ships went down as well.
Could be someone on board caught on or maybe the "captured" put up a fight and the ship went down.

itmaiden

the important clue that lead to me IDing what my wreck site in nassau sound actually was***** (many research people due to 1715 items being found in the area of nassau sound in error thought ithe vessel was a missing "original" 1715 fleet vessel in the sound ) the key to it was in the letter of oct 24th of 1715 * from the govenor of virginia (alexander spotswood) to the british home sec.(stanhope) --in a P.S. type--note at the bottom of the letter.--govenor sporswood clearly spelled out the details of the wreck and what it was-- ***vessel type (barcalonga) *****where from (sent from havana)-- what she was doing ****(sent to the fleet wrecksites to pick up vips and treasure---so while not part of the "original 1715 fleet"--- she was still carrying 1715 fleet type items!!!) what happed to her (is likewize cast away) where *****about 40 miles north of st augustine (nassau sound)

spotswood had a very good spy network and worked with english silver pirates as well.

 

[itmaiden]

Re: Maps ? You've got to be kidding.

Hi Douse Master,

Yea I like the thrill of the hunt too ! But there are times to "recreational" hunt, and hunt for boosting my personal economy.

So I have been thinking here lately, sure would be neat if there was a way to "douse" for gold.
Have you mastered that yet ?

itmaiden

I am very impressed with Ivan's research, and particularly his generosity in sharing with the viewers of this forum.

Good, or bad, I use a different approach. Find it first, and then research it.

It's not in my nature to be happy sitting at home cuddled up with books, maps and magnifying glass. I enjoy the adventure of the live hunt, and I have no disappointment if nothing is recovered.

Keep up the good works. Either way, Treasure Hunting is a great learning experience. Dell

 

[ivan salis]

Re: Maps ? You've got to be kidding.

my thoughts are more along the line of --the ship wrecked - a few spanish "survivors" saw a boat going by and waved em down -- ( sadly they did not know these folks were english silver "pirates"* big mistake * )-- and the wreck survivorslike fools "blabbed" to the pirates----what they were and such --the pirates quickly figgered out that they had a "fresh" prime "unknown" to the spanish officals wreck site -- so they did what any pirate would do ---they killed the survivors and noted the location -- (they figgered to cut a deal with govenor spotswood for the wrecksite info )-- after all they were pirates!!! they robbed salvage camps since it was so much easier than actually trying to salvage the vessels yourself - doing salvage work was dangerous hard back breaking abor after all (thats why the spanish mainly used slaves to do it as much as possible)

 

[ivan salis]

Re: Maps ? You've got to be kidding.

dell---try a powerful battery poweredUV black light on the beach on a darkish moonless night for said emeralds --- under a strong UV blaclklght emeralds on the surface should "glow" reddish giving themselves away -- look it up for yourself .==== the high content of chromium * in them (columbian stones) shows up as a "red color "under a UV black light.--

yep its sort of out of the box thinking , I know-- Ivan