LUE MAP THEORY, MAYBE SOME CONTEXT

[sdcfia]

Lack of knowledge is what holds back man's cultural achievements.

Horses are a tool, but the New World had no indigenous horses since the end of the Pleistocene Age - the animals being reintroduced with the Spanish Conquest. However, despite a lack of horses, it can be argued that significent human cultural advancement did indeed occur in a number of New World venues. The Spanish's shock at Tenochtitlan's sophistication, our own respect for the Mayan's cosmology and the world's wonderment of a dozen other stunning archeological sites in Central/South America prove that point. None of these obviously knowledgeable cultures had horses.

They did have plenty of knowledge though, and it seems likely that knowledge wasn't home grown, but was given to them by persons whom we can't yet identify conclusively. Based on a boatload of cultural, symbology and architectural similarities, and New World traditions, the New World cultural knowledge came from points east. The North American story isn't as clear, although the Mound Builders in the South and Midwest left lots of intriguing artifacts that were frequently plowed up by farmers, then dismissed by experts as frauds. Here in the Southwest, most of the ruins are basicly crude. Chaco is an exception - I tend to buy the idea that it was a temporary stop for migrating Aztecs who may have begun their journey at Cahokia, a site with similarities to Central American sites.

That said, what about the questions oldpueblo raised? I have a lot of ideas about the subject, but these are my quick-and-dirty opinions:
1) I think there are secret hidden sites in the Southwest. Any 'information' released about them, in any manner (introduction of fake artifacts, disposition of genuine artifacts, discovery of maps, testimony of individuals, etc.) is done to obfuscate the truth and misdirect the curious. Many, many of the 'treasure clues' and gold legends surfaced in the 1930's.
2) Nobody outside the tightly controlled Organization, which owns and controls the sites, will ever be given knowledge of them.
3) It's all about diversion - the clues, the carvings, the legends, all of it. The Organization allows the curious to run in circles away from their sites. Waltz may possibly have been an Organization man. IMO, trying to understand the 'Calalus/Oz' stuff posted on these threads is a waste of your time.
. . . .

I pretty much agree with all that. North American diffusionism is a no-no in academia and is almost totally repressed, despite plenty of circumstantial evidence - most of which is ridiculed, debunked, denied, destroyed or ignored.

 

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[mdog]

Yeah, there are many sites to look at. The VP gold, IMO, was WWII plunder by our government, using the Noss legends as a convenient explanation for its existence and discovery. Noss's valid recovery was in the Caballos, using VP as misdirection and as a convenient reason to fleece investors. Noss was a criminal all his life, you know. That's my take anyway.

Tracing the Aztecs pre-migration homeland ("Aztlan" is a typical name for the place) has been debatable for hundreds of years. The Utah "lake of reeds" has always had strong support. Aztec gold? Some searchers focus on its original sources in Southwest USA, some focus on its hiding spots after being relocated from Tenotchtitlan in the 16th century. Another interesting theory is that the even earlier Aztec homeland was Cahokia, on the Mississippi River. That would give them a Cahokia >> Aztlan >> Tenotchtitlan history.

Re the Mystery Glyphs - IMO they are clearly the relatively recent work of the so-called Organization and likely closely associated with Ojibwa symbology. Check Dan Lowe's work on this. Another interesting aspect of the Organization lore - viv-a-vis the Jesse James era - is the close ties they had with Native Americans, northern tribes in general, including the Ojibwa. Coincidence? The Mystery Glyphs are generally found near treasure cache legends and often in/near mining districts and railroad routes.

I found a Terry Carter video where he interviewed Dan Lowe about the Mystery Glyphs. He talked about Jesse James with brief mention of his theory that the glyphs were Sioux or Ojibwa.

It's probably not a coincidence that several Mystery Glyphs track along the LUE line heading that goes through Utah. If the Ojibwa are responsible for the carvings, there's a connection with the LUE's Apple Lake triangle in northern Minnesota. Two points on the Apple Lake Triangle are the towns Ogema and Waubun. Both towns were established about the same time the Scarlet Shadow was published. The name Waubun is Ojibwe and means "the east", Ogema means "chief". Chief of the East could be a reference to the Worshipful Master who sits in the east of a Masonic Lodge. The Apple Lake triangle is very important to the LUE mapping and is located on the White Earth Reservation of the Ojibwa.

This map shows the Mystery Glyph locations in Utah. The colored lines are LUE map headings. The red markers with the M are the Mystery Glyphs.

This map shows the Apple Lake triangle in Minnesota.

 

[sdcfia]

I found a Terry Carter video where he interviewed Dan Lowe about the Mystery Glyphs. He talked about Jesse James with brief mention of his theory that the glyphs were Sioux or Ojibwa.
. . . .

The Black Book details some of James' relationships with the northern tribes. As I recall, the Sioux's acquisition of modern firearms helped serve up to Custer more than he expected.

 

[point hunter]

https://mysteryglyphs.com/pages/Articles/Translation%20of%20Cedar%20City%20Symbols.pdf

I found this "translation" of the glyph panel in Cedar City, Utah. It was done by Mr. Jose Davila. I have no opinion yet about the glyphs because I honestly haven't spent that much time on them. But these glyph panels keep popping up in places of interest, don't they?

 

[sdcfia]

https://mysteryglyphs.com/pages/Articles/Translation%20of%20Cedar%20City%20Symbols.pdf

I found this "translation" of the glyph panel in Cedar City, Utah. It was done by Mr. Jose Davila. I have no opinion yet about the glyphs because I honestly haven't spent that much time on them. But these glyph panels keep popping up in places of interest, don't they?

Yeah, I'm ambivalent about whether these Mystery Glyphs have actual translations. I'm more inclined to favor the idea that the glyphs' locations are more important than any message that they are providing. The unusual symbols themselves would be highly recognizable for someone who was specifically searching for them. Once found and verified, then their location may be important in relationship to other possible clues in the area. They may even help form geometrical shapes on a map, such as is the case with the example below ("Egyptian" to the SW is found with a large panel of carvings in NM, many identical to the ones in your example).

 

[point hunter]

For starters, what are your opinions about the location of Tarshish? The great Jewish/Roman historian Josephus, claimed that it was simply Tarsus in Cilicia (Asia Minor). I am convinced that this is not the case. Firstly, Tarsus was not founded until a couple of generations AFTER king Solomon reigned, and certainly was not known for producing masses of silver, much less would it take a long voyage over the sea to reach it. A caravan overland would be about as fast and cheap, certainly without the risk of pirates or shipwreck.

In my opinion (underline that) Tarshish of the Old Testament, was one and the same with the city state called Tartessus by the Greeks. The information available from ancient Greek sources is thin on Tartessus, but they located the city on the Atlantic coast of southwestern Spain, not far from the Pillars of Herakles, and these Tartessians controlled the seas of that region, with the strait being a choke point for any ship trying to come out of the Mediterranean. According to the Greek sources, Tartessus was extremely rich in silver, so rich that the first merchants (Phoenician and Greek) to visit there, threw away their anchors and cast new ones of silver, so as to carry more silver home. This spot is fairly close to modern day Cadiz, and recent discoveries of sunken ruins near Cadiz look to be the actual site of Tartessus. The Tartessians were also famous for their huge sailing ships, able to sail the open oceans, and were the model by which kings David, Solomon and Jehoshaphat built their own, in order to safely cross the oceans.

We also have info in the book of Job, that ancient Hebrew ships could sail to Tarshish by sailing WEST from the port of Joppa, which indeed would be the logical route. Yet this is not where Solomon built his fleet of ships, he had over 100 camels haul pre-cut assemblies across the Sinai to Ezion-geber, and set sail from there - if you look on a map, you will see that this makes little sense, to sail EAST to reach Tarshish, when you could much more easily reach it by sailing WEST.

This raises an issue for according to the Old Testament, the 'navy' of king Solomon sailed for Ophir and Tarshish out of the port of Ezion-geber, not Joppa which would be a much shorter passage to reach SW Spain. It makes no sense at all, unless the squadron had a very different, and very distant additional port of call in their voyage, which indeed they did - Ophir. Where could Ophir be?

***Side point here but that "navy" of king Solomon was only 12 ships, see the works of Philo of Alexandria; this makes sense so as to have one ship for each of the 12 tribes, and not a huge navy as we might imagine by that term today.

We also have one more piece of information that helps locate Ophir - that the voyage took three years. Various different theorists have proposed a variety of locations for Ophir, from Zimbabwe in Africa to the coast of India or even closer, none of which makes sense for none require a three year voyage. India and Africa could be reached overland for that matter, no ships needed. Why three years for a round trip?

The first two explorers to make a round-the-world voyage, Magellan (whom died and did not complete the voyage but his ship did) and Drake, required three years to do it. This allowed for time spent at various stops along the way, to replenish the fresh water supplies if nothing else. Were the ancient seafarers of Solomon, sailing right around the world? I say yes indeed - in fact there is a piece of evidence that indicates that these voyages sent out by Solomon, did not return to Ezion-geber, but at Joppa! That would explain how the ships could visit Ophir, and also stop at Tarshish, and also explains why later kings of Judea like Jehoshaphat and one other whose name escapes me at the moment but if anyone wishes that king's name I will be happy to look it up, had to construct a new fleet at Ezion-geber when they regained control of it, as that port and the region around it were lost soon after king Solomon had died. Apparently when Solomon died, his fleet was not in Ezion-geber, perhaps in Joppa, and the loss of the port meant that his ships could not return there - meaning that later kings whom wished to attempt the voyage had to build new ships to do it.

There are other tidbits that help identify where Ophir might be, in the other products brought from there to the homeland; one of these products was "Almug wood" also written Algum. Josephus stated that it was simply a large pine. I suspect this Almug wood was American mahogany! However if it were pine, the Americas were famous for our quality pine forests for centuries; even the Norse explorers and colonists whom followed Leif Eriksson made it a point to cut American timber for sale back in Europe.

Some of the early Spanish explorers concluded that Ophir was and is, Peru! In support of this, they found ancient mine workings dotting the Andes, including ancient tools like a bronze crowbar, which we know the Incas nor any other local peoples had made bronze. The name Ophir and Peru are etymologically identical too.

I am getting carried away here, just thought I would toss out some speculation and let things get flowing again, comments/opinions are welcome (including complete disagreement on every point) thank you in advance.
Oroblanco

This is post number 83 By Oroblanco . This is is Treasure Hunting: Treasure Legends: Solomons Gold and History's Greatest Treasures. He places Ophir in South America not North America.

 

[point hunter]

What about Ophir? Do you think it is one single spot, or could it be really referring to a number of places?

I believe that Ophir is not a single spot, Peru may well be the 'main' place known to the ancient Hebrews as Ophir, but clearly in their voyages they also stopped at India where they obtained peacocks, possibly Africa or SE Asia where monkeys were obtained.

Have to sign off and get back to work, will try to pop in later this evening.
Oroblanco

He goes on to say in Post # 86 there might be multiple Ophir sites. So, we do have evidence of travel which takes 3 years. Could there be multiple Ophir sites on the North/South American continents? We seem to be gathering enough proof IMO the Aztec/Cibolo cities could be in the American southwest. But there are OOP carvings (shot put man for instance) and other anomalies that point back some group of ancients before that. I keep reading references to Atlantis for instance. IDK if that is valid, but there are references to trident carvings and strange stone faces in the Arizona for instance.