Looking for more info on small bronze hand/signal cannon from 18th century

GreyGhost

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Hello,
I recently purchased this small bronze hand/signal cannon from a reputable artifact and relic dealer.
He said the item was located somewhere in Texas/Louisiana and was dated around the mid 18th century (1750-1780). The little cannon was dated based on pottery found at the same site.
This is all the information he had on it. There's no markings or stamps anywhere on it. He said the cannon was in a collection acquired from a known relic hunter/collector (can give the name over PM).

It's a very neat little cannon and I was looking for more information on it if possible.

It's in fair condition and the touchhole and bore are still clear and free of corrosion and dirt (might be fireable?)
The trunnions on both sides are missing, there's little divots on each side where they used to go.
It's quite solid and heavy for it's small size.

The dealer also had many other small brass tabletop cannons that were from the mid 19th century. They had small wooden carriages and wheels. He said these were more like toys that people and kids would play around with in the old days.
However this cannon I purchased was a little more expensive and earlier. He thought it may have gone on a small boat to be used as a signal cannon. Or maybe it was just an earlier, cruder tabletop cannon as well?
Thanks for your help.

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The divots in the side where the trunnions should be are kind of worrying to me, it looks like they were separate pieces. all of them I've seen they are part of the complete casting and not added later. Seems to me that having them soldered or brazed in would make a pretty serious weak point that could send it flying out of whatever mount it was in.... Also it looks like maybe part of the muzzle end has been cut off?

My thought is a toy, based on the trunnion area, and it's pretty small to be a signal gun, since it wouldn't be much louder than a pistol.

Either way it's pretty cool looking!
 

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Pretty cool, even if it is an old toy, may be worth more":thumbsup:

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I would agree with toy cannon. Signal cannon are 3/4" bore or better and MUCH larger: 40 to 60 pounds.

That one would give no better notification than a pistol.

ARMSLIST - For Sale: WWII Liberty Ship Black Powder Swivel Deck Signal Cannon 1" Bore

ARMSLIST - For Sale/Trade: SOILD BRASS SIGNAL CANNON

Actually Charlie ... not to step in on ya....
signal cannon are not large...in general...
Most signal cannon are no larger than a large tankard.
And on the other side of this spectrum they were never this small.

This is a toy... and a rarer one.
Often they were abused... and many times... more than not overloaded... resulting in damage such as this.

Cool find... they are HIGHLY collectable and becoming more and more scarce.

IF you don't mind... how much did you pay ?

EDIT {} I should say on the above ... ANTIQUE signal cannon.
heh

For this is definite antique... and I would push this back in time in era.
 

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MAny people list things online as a "signal cannon" when in fact they are not...

Any small cannon seems to be generically called this.

Btw ANY cannon can b used as a "signal cannon"... simply by not adding a round / shell... and just using powder.

Small cannon get this "rap" all the time.

This piece is a toy... the offset bore says this.
 

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This is a typical hand "signal cannon"... AKA... "Thunder mug"...

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Thanks a lot for the replies guys, this has been really helpful.

So I guess we're going with an early American toy cannon. I guess for as long as cannons were around they also made toys of them. It's funny that something like that would be found out in the American frontier.
Do you guys think mid 18th century still sounds accurate?

Here is a pic of some of the later toy cannons the dealer had that you guys might enjoy. All were reasonably priced ($50-150).

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I do not like the date. I think it is late 1800s. The trunion marks are in the center line of the barrel, cannons made before around 1820 had trunions on the bottom half of the center line. I also think toy since the trunions seem to have come off, and I have a whole bunch of late 1800s small cannons made to work (shoot) and all their trunions are cast on.DSCN2476.webpDSCN2477.webp
 

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I think earlier...

This is definitely bronze... not G brass.
 

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Yeah the trunnions are a real mystery. Maybe they were just pressed on and have since broken off.
I also think the end was chopped off. Seems like most early toy cannons belled out more at the muzzle. Modern cannons/guns taper down straight like that and I don't think this is very modern. Maybe some kid blew the end off or got a ball stuck in there and his dad sawed it off to fix it for him.
And maybe at some point the kid broke the trunnions off too so dad drilled them out, who knows. The way it is now the trunnions would have to have been part of the carriage and fitted onto the cannon. "Reverse trunnions" I guess.
Might go back later today and pick up one of those brass toy cannons with the carriage too. Way cool!
 

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