llené Laudoniere - French Explorer?

pcolaboy

pcolaboy

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Sep 5, 2006
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This is a bit off our usual shipwreck topics but I thought I would ask if this group has come across anything of an early French explorer by the name of Laudoniere? I found a document at the Library of Congress a few years ago but somehow missed a segment of this collection of memoirs.

According to the journal of Bernard de La Harpe in French occupied Louisianna, this Laudoniere person supposedly setup a fortification (Fort Carolin) of some sorts on Pensacola Bay some time between 1562 and 1678. The large timespan is based on his chronology of other events before and after he mentioned this Laudoniere guy. I know there was "Fort Caroline" on the east coast but I don't see how Pensacola Bay could be mistaken for another place.

Since there has been no officially documented settlement attempt of Pensacola Bay between 1561 and 1698 (other than the strong likelihood of pirates), I wonder if it is possible that some privately funded venture could have actually been developed and not deemed significant enough for the history books. I pride myself in knowing as much about local history as possible but this is a totally new one on me. I could see how some french writer back in France could mistaken a particular port in the new world but not a guy living only 150 miles west of it.

Here's a link to this very interesting document: http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/r?intldl/ascfr:@field(DOCID+@lit(rbfr0009_0021)) The specific portion of the excerpt Im referring to is in the second section.

Ideas appreciated.

UPDATE: LOL...I guess I should read up on my East Coast history a little. I just found where Laudonniere was Jean Ribault's lieutenant that went on to establish Fort Caroline near Jacksonville ;D Still I can't help but wonder how he mistook the Jacksonville portion of the coast from Pensacola Bay just to the east of him. Oh well..too bad they didn't have Google back then :icon_study:
 

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Hey

yeah you should come by and see the fort caroline in jacksonville. Its actually a reconstruction of the old wooden fort. Its too bad most of Ribalts men were slaughtered by the Spanish down at mantanzas..I have heard that french coins could be found in st johns county by the inlet.

Larry
 

yes in fact he was one of the few survivors of the massacure * being very ill when ribault returned -- he was "left" behind in "command" of fort caroliine with a few sickly troops while ribualt took all the healthy ones and loaded em up to go wipe out st augustine -- lucky for st augustine and unlucky for ribault and the french -- the vessels were too deep draft to easily enter the harbor and while getting ready to ferry the troops ashore in small boats they were hit by a hurricane -- the strom drove them south of st augustine and wrecked them --leaving them no arms , food or water -- they attempted to go northward to get back to fort carolibe but were cot off by the spanish --forced to surrender (they thought they would be forced to leave but would live) they were later killed --the lack of supplies and the spanish kings orders were quite clear ---get rid of the french in florida --peroid.---after wiping out these men -- the spanish went and wiped out fort caroline as well -- only a few people escaped on one of the 3 vessels that had been left behind -* (2 pinnacles of 15 tonnes and a english vessel of 50 tonnes known as the "trout" which was bought from the english privateer john hawkins that stopped by on his return trip to england--- topping off with fresh water for the trip home---the vessel "trout" was in exchange for the cannons from the fort --the french at fort caroline were getting ready to leave the area to return to france when ribault showed up at last ) when the spanish attacked fort caroline defense was useless so the few that could fled using one snall vessel ---the other 2 vessels that were left behind they set fire to as they left to prevent the spanish getting or chasing them with.--- after surviving --he wrote of the ordeal which is why we know a good deal about the french view point about what occured.
 

My French is terrible... anybody else?

1.jpg

2.jpg
 

Hummm... Divers voyages touching the discovery of America and the islands adjacent makes a reference on the bottom of the page.

This is from Hakluyt.

3.jpg
 

And some more stuff:

From Pioneers of France in the New World by Francis Parkman

Full text available at: http://www.gutenberg.org/dirs/etext03/pofnw10.txt


Excerpt:

On Thursday, the twenty-second of June, Laudonniere saw the low
coast-line of Florida, and entered the harbor of St. Augustine, which he
named the River of Dolphins, "because that at mine arrival I saw there a
great number of Dolphins which were playing in the mouth thereof." Then
he bore northward, following the coast till, on the twenty-fifth, he
reached the mouth of the St. John's or River of May. The vessels
anchored, the boats were lowered, and he landed with his principal
followers on the south shore, near the present village of Mayport. It
was the very spot where he had landed with Ribaut two years before. They
were scarcely on shore when they saw an Indian chief, "which having
espied us cryed very far off, Antipola! Antipola! and being so joyful
that he could not containe himselfe, he came to meet us accompanied with
two of his sonnes, as faire and mightie persons as might be found in al
the world. There was in their trayne a great number of men and women
which stil made very much of us, and by signes made us understand how
glad they were of our arrival. This good entertainment past, the
Paracoussy [chief] prayed me to goe see the pillar which we had erected
in the voyage of John Ribault." The Indians, regarding it with
mysterious awe, had crowned it with evergreens, and placed baskets full
of maize before it as an offering.

The chief then took Laudonniere by the hand, telling him that he was
named Satouriona, and pointed out the extent of his dominions, far up
the river and along the adjacent coasts. One of his sons, a man "perfect
in beautie, wisedome, and honest sobrietie," then gave the French
commander a wedge of silver, and received some trifles in return, after
which the voyagers went back to their ships. "I prayse God continually,"
says Laudonniere, "for the great love I have found in these savages."

In the morning the French landed again, and found their new friends on
the same spot, to the number of eighty or more, seated under a shelter
of boughs, in festal attire of smoke-tanned deer-skins, painted in many
colors. The party then rowed up the river, the Indians following them
along the shore. As they advanced, coasting the borders of a great marsh
that lay upon their left, the St. John's spread before them in vast
sheets of glistening water, almost level with its flat, sedgy shores,
the haunt of alligators, and the resort of innumerable birds. Beyond the
marsh, some five miles from the mouth of the river, they saw a ridge of
high ground abutting on the water, which, flowing beneath in a deep,
strong current, had undermined it, and left a steep front of yellowish
sand. This was the hill now called St. John's Bluff. Here they landed
and entered the woods, where Laudonniere stopped to rest while his
lieutenant, Ottigny, with a sergeant and a few soldiers, went to explore
the country.

They pushed their way through the thickets till they were stopped by a
marsh choked with reeds, at the edge of which, under a great
laurel-tree, they had seated themselves to rest, overcome with the
summer heat, when five Indians suddenly appeared, peering timidly at
them from among the bushes. Some of the men went towards them with signs
of friendship, on which, taking heart, they drew near, and one of them,
who was evidently a chief, made a long speech, inviting the strangers to
their dwellings. The way was across the marsh, through which they
carried the lieutenant and two or three of the soldiers on their backs,
while the rest circled by a narrow path through the woods. When they
reached the lodges, a crowd of Indians came out "to receive our men
gallantly, and feast them after their manner." One of them brought a
large earthen vessel full of spring water, which was served out to each
in turn in a wooden cup. But what most astonished the French was a
venerable chief, who assured them that he was the father of five
successive generations, and that he had lived two hundred and fifty
years. Opposite sat a still more ancient veteran, the father of the
first, shrunken to a mere anatomy, and "seeming to be rather a dead
carkeis than a living body." "Also," pursues the history, "his age was
so great that the good man had lost his sight, and could not speak one
onely word but with exceeding great paine." In spite of his dismal
condition, the visitors were told that he might expect to live, in the
course of nature, thirty or forty years more. As the two patriarchs sat
face to face, half hidden with their streaming white hair, Ottigny and
his credulous soldiers looked from one to the other, lost in speechless
admiration.

One of these veterans made a parting present to his guests of two young
eagles, and Ottigny and his followers returned to report what they had
seen. Laudonniere was waiting for them on the side of the hill; and now,
he says, "I went right to the toppe thereof, where we found nothing else
but Cedars, Palme, and Baytrees of so sovereigne odour that Baulme
smelleth nothing like in comparison." From this high standpoint they
surveyed their Canaan. The unruffled river lay before them, with its
marshy islands overgrown with sedge and bulrushes; while on the farther
side the flat, green meadows spread mile on mile, veined with countless
creeks and belts of torpid water, and bounded leagues away by the verge
of the dim pine forest. On the right, the sea glistened along the
horizon; and on the left, the St. John's stretched westward between
verdant shores, a highway to their fancied Eldorado. "Briefly," writes
Laudonniere, "the place is so pleasant that those which are
melancholicke would be inforced to change their humour."

On their way back to the ships they stopped for another parley with the
chief Satouriona, and Laudonniere eagerly asked where he had got the
wedge of silver that he gave him in the morning. The chief told him by
signs, that he had taken it in war from a people called Thimagoas, who
lived higher up the River, and who were his mortal enemies; on which the
French captain had the folly to promise that he would join in an
expedition against them. Satouriona was delighted, and declared that, if
he kept his word, he should have gold and silver to his heart's content.
 

okay, this is the last lead... I gotta get back to work, the boss is getting suspicious. He's never seen me work this hard before.



...the authority is the first of the three long letters of Rena de Laudonniere, Companion of
Ribaut and his successor in command. They are contained in the Histoire
Notable de la Floride, compiled by Basanier (Paris, 1586), and are also
to he found, quaintly "done into English," in the third volume of
Hakluyt's great collection. In the main, they are entitled to much
confidence.
 

as many folks know I read and translate into "modern english" --- old spanish , old english / scottish and old french documents and maps --- :wink: it can take a bit of time however -- since its not simple or easy after all.

PM with what information you need to know about / or send me a good clear copy of whatever documents / maps you need translated *
 

A relevent book (see index) published over 120 years ago. Now its free to download...Stan

Old Saint Augustine - A Story Of Three Centuries
By Charles B. Reynolds

http://books.google.com/books?id=IgxF9iTc6BYC&pg=PA95&dq=saint+augustine&as_brr=1#PPA7,M1

CONTENTS.
I. The Spaniard's Mission, - - - 1 1
II, The Huguenots In Florida, - - 14
III, The Coming Of Menendez, 20
IV. Founding A City, .... 25
V. Fort Caroline, ..... 29
VI. Matanza, ------ 34
VII. French Vengeance, 43
VIII. After Twenty Years, ... 49
IX. The English Sea-kings, - - 51
X. The Franciscans, - 62
XI. The Boucaniers, ..... 69
XII. British Cannon Balls, ... 75
XIII. The Minorcans, ..... 83
XIV. Rangers And Liberty Boys, - - 91
XV. The Old World In The New, - - 100
XVI. The Seminole, ..... 108
XVII. Later Years, ..... 118
XVIII. Fort Marion, ..... 125
 

the first french settlement landed and set up by Ribault was named "charles fort" was to be near what is now called charleston , south carolina (charles fort --- later becomes the basis of the name "charlestown") ribault left a small band of men behind when he left -- it was this group that Laudoniere was sent to "relieve" later on --- during the trip there laudoniere scouted out the area later known as st augustine a bit (the exact area his foes would later use to build a base from which to attack him from later on) he then went on to charles fort to "relieve the men there" however upon arrival in the charles fort area (charleston) he found the fort deserted and the men gone. ---so he went back dowen the coast to what was called by the french "the river of may" (the st johns as its now known) and set up the settlement up river as bit known as fort caroline.

the settlement due to sorry mismanagement ( they ate up what food supplies they had and did not "farm" or plant seeds --they were highly dependant upon trade with the indains for food supplies --when food supplies got short --the indains didn't want to "trade" cheaply and jacked up the "prices" (indains understood "supply and demand" trading) --the french bitched about it but the indains said --"ok then you "eat your things and I'll eat mine" so the "trade goods" were rapidly running short as well ---so due to the lack of food and trading supplies the settlers suffered badly --they were preparing to abandon the area altogether and return to france * they had even traded off the cannons of the fort to john hawkens --a visiting "passing by" english privateer for some food & supplies --(shoes and such) and a smallish vessel upon which to return on * --- however a very short bit later as they were preparing to leave Ribuilt arrived on the scene with new supplies and "reinforcements" * Ribuilt had knowledge gained before leaving france that the spanish in st augustine were planning to attack the french settlement soon -- so Ribuilt decided to "strike first" and knock out the spanish settlement instead of waiting for the spanish attack them. --- Laudoniere (who was ill at the time) was now second in command as Ribuilt was his "senior" however he urged Ribuilt to "rethink" his plan since there were often hurricanes and bad sudden storms this time of year --but Ribuilts mind was set -- so he took every able bodied man he could find crammed them onto his vessels and went to attack the spanish in st augustine --the st augustine harbor was too shallow for Ribuilt's veseels to enter diectly ---so he had to sit off shore as the troops slowly prepared to unload via the ships "launch" boats -- suddenly a powerful hurricane came upon them --sweeping the french vessels ashore wrecking them --and leaving the battered french survivors --without water, food , or arms as well as sick and hurt -- so the french were forced to "surrender" -- the spanish being short on supplies themselves did not have the "extra" food to feed all the extra mouths and plus they were under royal orders "wipe out" the protestant french from "catholic" spanish florida -- so the spanish slaughtered the french shipwreck "survivors" making a scary exsample of them to any frenchman that would think to colonize florida. --- after killing off the shipwrecked frenchmen --the spanish from went north to "mop" up the french settlement at fort caroline * only a very few people survived the attack --one of them being Laudoniere who being quite ill was left behind "in charge" of fort caroline by Ribuilt -- they escaped on a smallish vessel that was left behind and set fire to the other vessels in the harbor so as to not be chased down to the spanish --including the vessel that they had traded jogn hawkins for "the trout" --its via Laudonieres later writing that we know much of the french side of the events that occured .
 

Ribualt, and Laudoniere, also had a 2 small settlement on Batten Island.
Just think, If Ribualt would of listen' to Laudoniere, how much of St. Aug. history
would of changed??
 

Ivan,

Charlesfort was actually found on what is today Parris Island Marine Corps Recruit Depot, here in Beaufort, SC. We are actually a good ways down the coast from Charleston and there was always some debate over the location until recent years. What is very interesting is that Charlesfort was later settled by the Spanish and the town or area was called Santa Elena.

Not to highjack the thread, but a good discussion on Fort San Salvador and Fort San Marcos at Santa Elena would be very interesting! If you ever come across anything of interest, I would love to discuss it. I have over 150 pages of Spanish Documents from this period that relate to Saint Augustine and Santa Elena. Maybe I could get you to translate some of them for me.

RGecy
 

RELICDUDE07 said:
UWF archaeologists believe they have found lost 18th century Escambe Spanish mission :wink:
Click to expand...

That's the same story I tried emailing you the link to a couple of weeks ago. NorthEscambia.Com has a ton of photos on it.
 

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