Lets be realistic

KEVTEC

Full Member
Apr 19, 2010
115
7
Northern Ohio
Detector(s) used
White's Spectra V-3 upgraded to V3I W/ SEF 15X12 Butterfly coil, White's Vision upgraded to V3I W 12 in coil, Minelab Excaliber II, Minelab E Trac, Minelab GPX 5000, Discovery TF 900 2 box, Garrett Pro Pinpointer
Let's be realistic

Let's be realistic, If a detector manufacturer wanted to build a machine that could determine a gold ring they in fact could. Bear with me a sec, first of all if my V3 can determine a copper coated zinc penny from a full copper penny that is indeed a start. A 14 kt ring has approx 58.3% gold content, does a pull tab have any gold content? NO, they why does the machine analyze the pull tab the same as the 14 kt ring? Size doesn't really come into play either since I have had a crushed beer can read as a quarter, HOT WHEELS AS A QUARTER AND HALF. Gee does the beer can have any silver, copper in it's molecular structure? NO.These manufactures have been doing this for years, even back 30 yrs ago when I started you still had to dig a multitude of junk targets to maybe find a gold ring once in awhile. 30 yrs later we are still doing the same thing except we have a little more depth and larger coils, better pinpointing, but the main issue is pulltabs and can slaw lids STILL show up in the VDI range of gold. Even my GPX 5000 which is a top of the line machine has the same faults. It reminds me before I retired from Ford, the big Lincoln Town Car was always a desired luxury car, yet Ford used the same componets in the Lincoln as they did the regular Ford products. I could never figure why when I would go to order a Lincoln there was usually a 4-7 week wait. Later on I found out that Ford would only build 100,000 new Lincolns yearly thus controlling the price of the luxury car with supply and demand. What do you think would happen, let's say Minelab, or Whites came out with a machine, (which they could with today's technology) that guaranteed you to tell the difference between aluminum and gold targets, thus digging no more pull tabs or can slaw? Down side is that it would have a $10,000 price tag. Thus the reason the manufactures don't offer this technology that they already have for a few basic reasons.
1. There would in fact be people purchase them, but when compared to the amount of people that couldn't afford them the company would lose money for lack of sales with the already available technology.
2. This would create a vast amount of machines sitting in warehouses not being sold by manufactures thus forcing them to drop the prices of the newly developed gold machine along with other manufactures creating these new machine until the price was acceptable to the general public.
3. Remember years ago when a guy came up with a carburetor that boasted 90 miles per gallon? Did you ever wonder what happened to that idea? Big business as car manufactures are in bed with oil companies and most likely he was paid for his idea thus keeping it from the general public.
Think about what I have written here and you be the judge, is 30 plus yrs enough time with today's technology to produce a detector to distinguish pull tabs from gold rings? You bet your a$$ they can!!!
 

Re: Let's be realistic

metal detectors do NOT analyze the metal content of a item --but rather analyze the find based upon a items "electrical conductivity" rating -- using battery power the coil puts out a electrically charged feild under its coil --as it gets close to conductive metal items in the ground the "electrically charged" feild reacts with them returning the signal to the detector --- differant metals have differant conductivity levels --(sadly some very differant metals like aluminum and gold are quite close to one another on the "electrical conductivity scale" which is how metal detctors tell one metal from another *) -- by the strength of the reaction signal returned to the detector--it attempts to figger out if its metal A or metal B -- also by the strength of the signals return the detector can try to figger out "how deep" it is --( normally they set up the "depth guess' in the machine based up a coin sized item - since most folks are looking for coins)--so it might be off depth wize if its a non coin sided item ---say a very small or large item

hope this helps somewhat.

a deep aluminum can has about the same "electical conductivity" reading as a few inch deep silver half dollar /dollar -- thats why they screw up the machine's IDing of them - old trick --if you think you got a coin not a beer car /soda can --lift up on yer coil -- a beer/ soda can is a much larger target mass and will stay in for a good bit a coin has a lot less "mass" so it will drop out rapidly --it it stays in for a good bit as you lift yer coil -- most likely its a can. :wink: :read2: :coffee2:
 

Re: Let's be realistic

Manipulation exist everywhere, to built new detector companies should have ideas and invest money- but its expensive and not always rewarding. so they cut corners and add few lines and sell to us- not very smart consumers, old- with face lift-new. to understand in metal detecotors you need to use it-allot. I learn something after two years metal detecting and braking metal detectors, but who can spend so much time and have will to learn how its made, instead metal detecting in weekends. :dontknow: and to think that minelab and other companies know how to built much better detector is not really right-most of them dont. :hello:
 

Re: Let's be realistic

I am sure you probably know this, but for those that don't know, gold jewelry, poptops and can slaw ring close to the same because the base metals and gold in the jewelry have the same electrical conductivity as the metal in poptops and can slaw... It is all based on the electricial conductivity of the target.................Now if a detector also included a ground pentrating radar that allowed you to see the shape of the target on a screen that would be a major change, but most of us couldn't afford it....
 

Re: Let's be realistic

Shambler said:
If you developed a machine that could differentiate gold from aluminum, would you sell it?

Only if they gave me huge buckets of money for the patent rights.... I would make them myself and sell them one at a time for some very nice change....$$$$$$$

I would be more interested in a VLF detector that could detect small targets 2 foot deep or a PI with true descrinination for iron..............
 

Re: Let's be realistic

I can't speak for others, But I don't think I would
want a Machine that could find Gold only.

Or silver only

Or even silver & gold only.

Not just because there are alot of things Not made of those metals that
are worth digging But because there is Not a piece of gold
or silver in every square foot of Ground.

I get Bored & sore walking & swinging a detector for 5 Minutes,
If I don't get a signal. I wouldn't want to swing for 5 hours
in a spot without gold, just Hoping for that one piece.

They may have there Place, but considering this Fact
I Wouldn't pay more then $200.00 for a gold or silver Only detector.
 

Re: Let's be realistic

jeff of pa said:
I can't speak for others, But I don't think I would
want a Machine that could find Gold only.

Or silver only

Or even silver & gold only.

Not just because there are alot of things Not made of those metals that
are worth digging But because there is Not a piece of gold
or silver in every square foot of Ground.

I get Bored & sore walking & swinging a detector for 5 Minutes,
If I don't get a signal. I wouldn't want to swing for 5 hours
in a spot without gold, just Hoping for that one piece.

They may have there Place, but considering this Fact
I Wouldn't pay more then $200.00 for a gold or silver Only detector.
The statement wasn't for a machine that was gold and silver only, but rather a machine that can seperate a gold article from junk while coin hunting or relic hunting!!
 

Re: Let's be realistic

jeff of pa said:
I can't speak for others, But I don't think I would
want a Machine that could find Gold only.

Or silver only

Or even silver & gold only.

Not just because there are alot of things Not made of those metals that
are worth digging But because there is Not a piece of gold
or silver in every square foot of Ground.

I get Bored & sore walking & swinging a detector for 5 Minutes,
If I don't get a signal. I wouldn't want to swing for 5 hours
in a spot without gold, just Hoping for that one piece.

They may have there Place, but considering this Fact
I Wouldn't pay more then $200.00 for a gold or silver Only detector.

If you lived close to the beaches you would, expecially if it was a deep detector.....I am a very virm believer there are litterly thousands of gold rings buried on the beaches, they are just buried deep....When we have a heavy storm that pulls the sand off gold and silver is everywhere till the tides cover it back up which happens quickly, I have seen it happen, only at the time I was so new at it I wasn't smart enough to got a hotel room, call in sick and spent the next 3-5 days hunting.....I will next time...... :icon_thumright:
 

Re: Let's be realistic

What is going to happen is a company is going to get one of the newer really fast processors that are out now and work out a newer way of doing this . And when they do they will have a detector that will do very close to what you are speaking of.
And I will say who every comes up with this detector first will not be able to make them fast enough.

Can you imagine going out to detect and have the unit tell you what every thing is that you are digging ? ID the coins right from the start . Relic hunters being told the size and mass of what is down in the ground and what type of alloy it is made of.

The company that does this first will make millions and the demand will be world wide. And the detector will have a port like some of the more costly ones out now were the user can download the software for the Items that are found in his or her country ! Yeah it will be something to see , and I do think it is just a matter of time before someone gets this done.
 

Re: Let's be realistic

Those who post that detectors read conductivity not composition are right. Then throw in the difference ground mineralisation makes to a reading and finally add that conductivity readings are skewed by the size of the target.

Pure gold reacts as a high conductor at a quarter ounce or above, small gold as a low conductor.Mix other metals with gold (iron to get "red" gold, silver to lighten the gold's colour) and the conductivity is further altered.

There's not going to be any computer processor that will get round the basic problems faced in true discrimination with standard type detectors. One hope might be from the company that developed the Splice detector for demining out in the third world where there might be no access to batteries and solar power could not be relied upon if used in dense forest. This used a very low voltage and got its power from the sweep of the coil. As a side line they had experimented with radar and found that using different frequencies gave a different response for each metal type. But that must have been ten years back and they don't seem to have come up with a handheld detector working on that principle.
 

Re: Let's be realistic

I can understand wanting a detector that screens out or informs us about ring pulls,foil and other such rubbish, but would you really want one that tells you everything about what you've found before you dig it?
A lot about this hobby is the curiosity/surprise factor. Beep!..."oh a dime." Dig "nup...a hotwheels car dammit!" Beep! "A quarter!" dig "Nup, a lost key grrr!" Beep! "sigh..another ring pull" dig "nup..an 18k solitaire ring..WOOT!"

Much as i get fed up digging crap like everyone else does, i love that "you just never know" feeling and the warm spreading smile when something nice pops up. It's a lot of what makes the hobby great in my opinion. Take that away and you'll end up with the same feel good feeling you'd get by having a butler fire your favourite gun while you have a beer. pointless!

I have no doubt that these machines will appear in the future, but for me it'll take away the pleasure, kind of like what the motor car did for the pleasure of horse riding. (As a necessity i mean)
 

Re: Let's be realistic

Well put Dano. The easier something is, the less rewarding. Bring on a 100 pulltab day, I can take it!!!
 

Re: Let's be realistic

lookindown said:
Well put Dano. The easier something is, the less rewarding. Bring on a 100 pulltab day, I can take it!!!


For real!! Plus scrap is WAY up! :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:


Sky Pilot
 

Re: Let's be realistic

lookindown said:
Well put Dano. The easier something is, the less rewarding. Bring on a 100 pulltab day, I can take it!!!

You can have my pulltabs..... :tongue3:
 

Re: Let's be realistic

Treasure_Hunter said:
lookindown said:
Well put Dano. The easier something is, the less rewarding. Bring on a 100 pulltab day, I can take it!!!

You can have my pulltabs..... :tongue3:
UH-OH :o
 

Re: Let's be realistic

TreasureHunter, I could never take something you put all that hard work into, thanks anyway......whew!
 

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