LEGAL QUESTION!

H

Huelten

Full Member
Nov 22, 2013
101
77
Oregon
Primary Interest:
Prospecting
Hey all, ive been prospecting about a year and a half now in east Oregon. Never once have i seen anywhere that i need a permit for an in stream, NON suction, NON power, sluice. Specifically a Bazooka gold trap. Well about 15 min into my sunny Saturday of prospecting i was shut down by a Oregon State Police officer. Here he comes at me asking for my permits.. specifically asking for a 700 pm permit, which i had thought was only for dredging. After telling him i had no permit and didn't believe i needed one he asks me to go to his truck and to bring my gear to put away. As im putting my gear away he spots my water pump in the back of my truck and proceeds to tell me that high-banking is illegal in the state of oregon. At this point i ran out of patience and called him out on his BS, because i KNOW that with a settling pond and a 600 permit high-banking is most certainly legal in this state! He quickly backs off and tells me "oh yeah, if your on a registered claim than its legal", definitely not what he had just told me. Then he proceeds to tell me some BS about salmon in the river, a river that i KNOW contains ZERO salmon or steelhead. Anyways, rant over, i smelled BS all over what this guy was telling me so i am here to ask for advice. Do i need the 700 permit to stream sluice in oregon? This is strait from the DEQ 700 application"New permit applies both to suction dredges and to non-motorized mining equipment. Miners who use non-motorized equipment will be required to meet the performance standards of the permit but are not required to register or pay the $25 annual fee". So how can i apply for the permit if the permit does not apply to me anyways? Im lost :icon_scratch:
 

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Find out who was on duty in that area that day, call and set up a meeting with his supervisor, bring a copies of the laws and regulations, and demand he bring this officer be in for some current training on the laws, if he was rude and condescending, demand a written apology after he recieves proper training. I keep a PLP incident card most times I am mining, at the very least if you are approached, have paper and pen and get their name, badge number, time and date.
 

I didnt receive a ticket for anything so im not too mad about the incident. Just seemed like he didnt know what he was talking about. Just checking if anyone else had situations like mine happen and if anyone knew about the 700pm permit
 

It doesn't matter if you didn't get a ticket, if this guy isn't corrected, he is going to keep doing this over and over. Fix it before he runs anyone else off of the river illegally
 

Having a pump in your truck does not constitute highbanking. The cop was a uninformed do-gooder and needs to have his leash shortened a bit. Follow the above advice and contact his supervisor.

Here is a couple answers from a DEQ FAQ:
Do I need to apply for an authorization if I use only non-motorized equipment
such as shovels, hand tools, bucket, gold pan and non-motorized sluice box?
If you meet the definition of prospecting an authorization is not needed. Prospecting
means you use only non-motorized methods to explore for samples of gold, silver or
other precious minerals and move less than 1 cubic yards at any one individual site and
cumulatively less than 5 cubic yards within a designated ESH stream per year.

What if the stream is not ESH? Do I need an authorization?
Not unless you move more than 50 cubic yards below OHW each year
 

So basically after doing some more research i just need to have a copy of the permit on me? not filled out or sent in, Just a copy. Am i correct in that assumption?
 

Just knowing your rights isn't enough.It seems a guy has to carry with him proof of those rights.. Every now and then some ignorant fish cop with his badge on his forehead needs to be educated. THIS AGENT IS ABUSING HIS AUTHORITY. He needs to be stopped ! He is the perfect candidate to be made an example of. Sue him ,get him fired ,sue his supervisor. What kind of agency are they running?
 

Oregon Statutes - Chapter 517 - Mining and Mining Claims - Section 517.133 - Interfering with a mining operation.

(1) As used in this section, “lawful mining operation” means any small scale mining operation that is in full compliance with state and federal laws.

(2) A person commits the crime of interfering with a mining operation if the person intentionally:

(a) Interferes with a lawful mining operation; or

(b) Stops, or causes to be stopped, a lawful mining operation.

(3) Interfering with a mining operation is a Class C misdemeanor.
 

Huelten
Was this while you were on my claim & if so I need the OSP officers name, or time and day this happened.......... PM me ASAP......
 

So the State of Oregon is requiring permits:

I thought it might be interesting to see how a State (in this case Oregon) might come to feel they have water rights over the miner and require a permit, by the miner who has Granted those exclusive rights to water per the Federal Mining Laws. In other words where does the State of Oregon get the idea they can require a miner get a dredge permit.....where is their projected authority derived? Now the following is from the current Oregon Law Book of Water Resources.
From the 2010 Oregon Law Book:
537.334 Findings.
The people of the State of Oregon find and declare that:
(1) Public uses (of water) are beneficial uses.
(2) The recognition of an in-stream water right under ORS 537.336 to 537.348 shall not diminish the public’s rights in the ownership and control of the waters of this state or the public trust therein. The establishment of an in-stream water right under the provisions of ORS 537.332 to 537.360 "shall not take away or impair any permitted, certificated or "decreed right" (do you suppose the Federal Grant is a decreed right?) which [" is a legislative grant, and being given by act of congress, is equivalent to a patent from the United States to the same."] to any waters or to the use of any waters vested prior to the date the instream
water right is established pursuant to the provisions of ORS 537.332 to 537.360." [1987 c.859 §3]
537.335
Wow....that is pretty dinamic I'll look further
Then on page 152:
APPROPRIATION OF WATER FOR MINING AND ELECTRIC POWER
UNDER 1899 ACT
541.110 Use of water to develop mineral resources and furnish power. The use of the water of the lakes and running streams of Oregon for the purpose of developingthe mineral resources of the state and to furnish electric power for all purposes, is declared to be a public and beneficial use and a public necessity. Subject to the provisions of the Water Rights Act (as defined in ORS 537.010), the right to divert unappropriated waters of any such lakes or streams or such public and beneficial use is "granted".
NOW NOTE THAT THE ABOVE REFERENCES THE Oregon Water Law of 1899. IF YOU GO TO THE SWOMA SITE AND LOOK UP THE ACUTAL WATER LAW OF 1899 YOU WILL BE VERY SURPRISED OF YOUR FINDINGS!

Bejay
 

So the State of Oregon is requiring permits:

I thought it might be interesting to see how a State (in this case Oregon) might come to feel they have water rights over the miner and require a permit by the miner; who has Granted those exclusive rights to water per the "Federal Mining Laws". In other words where does the State of Oregon get the idea they can require a miner get a dredge permit.....where is their projected authority derived? Now the following is from the current Oregon Law Book of Water Resources.
From the 2010 Oregon Law Book:
537.334 Findings.
The people of the State of Oregon find and declare that:
(1) Public uses (of water) are beneficial uses.
(2) The recognition of an in-stream water right under ORS 537.336 to 537.348 shall not diminish the public’s rights in the ownership and control of the waters of this state or the public trust therein. The establishment of an in-stream water right under the provisions of ORS 537.332 to 537.360 "shall not take away or impair any permitted, certificated or "decreed right" (do you suppose the Federal Grant is a decreed right?) which [" is a legislative grant, and being given by act of congress, is equivalent to a patent from the United States to the same."] to any waters or to the use of any waters vested prior to the date the instream
water right is established pursuant to the provisions of ORS 537.332 to 537.360." [1987 c.859 §3]
537.335
Wow....that is pretty dynamic I'll look further
Then on page 152:
APPROPRIATION OF WATER FOR MINING AND ELECTRIC POWER
UNDER 1899 ACT
541.110 Use of water to develop mineral resources and furnish power. The use of the water of the lakes and running streams of Oregon for the purpose of developing the mineral resources of the state and to furnish electric power for all purposes, is declared to be a public and beneficial use and a public necessity. Subject to the provisions of the Water Rights Act (as defined in ORS 537.010), the right to divert unappropriated waters of any such lakes or streams or such public and beneficial use is "granted".

NOW NOTE THAT THE ABOVE REFERENCES THE Oregon Water Law of 1899. IF YOU GO TO THE SWOMA SITE AND LOOK UP THE ACUTAL WATER LAW OF 1899 YOU WILL BE VERY SURPRISED OF YOUR FINDINGS!

Bejay
 

Last edited:
536.320 Limitation of powers of commission. The Water Resources Commission
shall not have power:
(1) To interfere with, supervise or control the internal affairs of any state agency or public corporation;
(2) To modify, set aside or alter any existing right to use water or the priority of
such use established under existing laws
_________________________________________________________________________
So existing laws are those granted the miner under the 1872 Mining Law "GRANT".....Bejay
__________________________________________________________________________
OREGON WATER LAW:
IN-STREAM WATER RIGHTS
537.332 Definitions for ORS 537.332 to
537.360.
As used in ORS 537.332 to 537.360: (1) “In-stream” means within the natural
stream channel or lake bed or place where water naturally flows or occurs.
(2) “In-stream flow” means the minimum quantity of water necessary to support the
public use requested by an agency.
(3) “In-stream water right” means a water right held in trust by the Water Resources
Department for the benefit of the people of the State of Oregon to maintain
water in-stream for public use. An in-stream water right does not require a diversion or
any other means of physical control over the water.
(4) “Public benefit” means a benefit that accrues to the public at large rather than to
a person, a small group of persons or to a private enterprise.

APPROPRIATION OF WATER FOR
MINING AND ELECTRIC POWER
UNDER 1899 ACT
541.110 Use of water to develop mineral
resources and furnish power.
The use of the water of the lakes and running streams of Oregon for the purpose of developing
the mineral resources of the state and to furnish electric power for all purposes, is
declared to be a public and beneficial use and a public necessity. Subject to the provisions
of the Water Rights Act (as defined in ORS 537.010), the right to divert unappropriated
waters of any such lakes or streams for such public and beneficial use is granted.

541.130 Right of way for ditches across
state lands. The right of way to the extent specified in the Act of 1899, pages 172 to 180,
Oregon Laws 1899, for the ditches, canals, flumes, pipelines, distributing ditches, and
feeders of any person appropriating water under the provisions of that Act, across any
and all lands belonging to the State of Oregon and not under contract of sale, is
granted.
__________________________________________________________________________________

Talk about a State legislative action (law requiring a permit) violating the states' OWN water law(s)....kind of sums it up does it not?

Bejay
 

Oregon Water Law(s)

536.320 Limitation of powers of commission. The Water Resources Commission
shall not have power: (1) To interfere with, supervise or control the internal affairs of any state agency or public corporation; (2) To modify, set aside or alter any existing right to use water or the priority of
such use established under existing laws

IN-STREAM WATER RIGHTS
537.332 Definitions for ORS 537.332 to
537.360.
As used in ORS 537.332 to 537.360: (1) “In-stream” means within the natural
stream channel or lake bed or place where water naturally flows or occurs.
(2) “In-stream flow” means the minimum quantity of water necessary to support the
public use requested by an agency.
(3) “In-stream water right” means a water right held in trust by the Water Resources
Department for the benefit of the people of the State of Oregon to maintain
water in-stream for public use. An in-stream water right does not require a diversion or
any other means of physical control over the water.
(4) “Public benefit” means a benefit that accrues to the public at large rather than to
a person, a small group of persons or to a private enterprise.

APPROPRIATION OF WATER FOR
MINING AND ELECTRIC POWER
UNDER 1899 ACT
541.110 Use of water to develop mineral
resources and furnish power.
The use of the water of the lakes and running streams of Oregon for the purpose of developing
the mineral resources of the state and to furnish electric power for all purposes, is
declared to be a public and beneficial use and a public necessity. Subject to the provisions
of the Water Rights Act (as defined in ORS 537.010), the right to divert unappropriated
waters of any such lakes or streams for such public and beneficial use is granted.

541.130 Right of way for ditches across
state lands. The right of way to the extent specified in the Act of 1899, pages 172 to 180,
Oregon Laws 1899, for the ditches, canals, flumes, pipelines, distributing ditches, and
feeders of any person appropriating water under the provisions of that Act, across any
and all lands belonging to the State of Oregon and not under contract of sale, is
granted.


Bejay
 

Well, im pretty sure ive got this figured out. Ive been in contact with ODFW, DSL, and DEQ today. So i do NOT need a 700 permit, just a copy on hand. I do NOT need a DSL placer mining permit, less than 50 yards annualy and a non-ESH river. The ODFW marine biologist told me in person today that the in-water work period only applies to prospecting which requires a permit, which mine does NOT. So im printing all of this off and carrying it with me and im gonna go back out this weekend!
 

BTW: thank you to everyone who responded, gave me a lot of guidance and good advice.
 

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