Legal Detecting - in KY and in General

[Hunterhound]

Greetings all,

Question 1: What is the best place to look for detecting laws and ordinances? I suspect there is usually an online repository through some type of government office in the state capital but I haven't reached that point in my research yet.

Question 2: Do state laws and/or ordinances override those of a town/city in the state if nothing is specifically published by the town/city government? I was looking at a local town to being my first round of treasure hunting due to the American Revolutionary and Civil War period history but couldn't find anything published online by the city clerk regarding anything relating to metal detecting. I looked through several documents relating to curfew, construction, and general city procedures but nothing stood out.

Question 3: Has anyone ever tried to obtain local permission to detect in a town/city that specifically has laws preventing public detecting? If so, who did you obtain permission from? What process did you use? i may be off-base but it seems like making an appeal to a local city council or other group may be a way to obtain permission in an area that would otherwise be off-limits. I ask this as I live in KY and I've seen at least one post (sorry, no link) on the Tnet forums stating KY has very restrictive detecting laws for public areas. I'd hate to miss out on all the potential finds in the smaller towns because of restrictive state laws.

Anyway, any advice is appreciated. I'd hate to end up losing equipment on my virgin hunt.

 

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[Tom_in_CA]

Question 1: What is the best place to look for detecting laws and ordinances? I suspect there is usually an online repository through some type of government office in the state capital but I haven't reached that point in my research yet.

Whatever the entity is that you have in mind (a particular state, a particular city, or a particular county), you start with that entity's own website. States and counties usually all have a website nowadays. But often-time cities (especially smaller ones) have not entered into the 'puter age yet Or if they do/have, perhaps they're cryptic and don't have their laws/charter/codes necessarilly listed on there. If the website of the entity in question doesn't have their laws/codes, then you can always pay a visit to city or county hall offices, and ask "where can a person read/see the municipal laws covering this county/city?". If they turn-the-tables back on you, and ask "what is it that you wanted to know?" don't fall for it: Repeat the question, that the thing that you "wanted to know", is where is there a listing of all the laws and charter and muni-codes of the city, available for public viewing. Period. If they ask why, or what is it that you wanted to know, the answer is that you're "doing research". Period. End of story. They should be able to direct you where it exists. Like in binder form that they can bring out to the front desk. Or direct you to the local library where that maybe is. Or direct you to an internet link, or whatever.

To be honest with you though, most people wouldn't even go that far. If there's no sign at the park entrance saying "no metal detecting", then most people's research would end there. But .... if you're worried that it might be on-the-books at city or county hall, yet not on the sign, you're welcome to use the methods above.

Question 2: Do state laws and/or ordinances override those of a town/city in the state if nothing is specifically published by the town/city government? I was looking at a local town to being my first round of treasure hunting due to the American Revolutionary and Civil War period history but couldn't find anything published online by the city clerk regarding anything relating to metal detecting. I looked through several documents relating to curfew, construction, and general city procedures but nothing stood out.

No, state laws do not automatically subrogate down to county and city levels. Not unless specifically incorporated by spelled out inclusion. That's why, for example, laws relating to city parks versus state parks VARY ALL THE TIME! For example: maybe state parks don't allow dogs off leash. But a city park does (by virtue of having no rule about leash or no leash to start with, hence silent on the issue). Heck, rules can vary park to park in ANY entity: At one park, it "closes at sunset", whereas another park has no such qualification, and so forth. Thus no, state level rules do not automatically subrograte down to lower entities/levels.

Question 3: Has anyone ever tried to obtain local permission to detect in a town/city that specifically has laws preventing public detecting? If so, who did you obtain permission from? What process did you use? i may be off-base but it seems like making an appeal to a local city council or other group may be a way to obtain permission in an area that would otherwise be off-limits. I ask this as I live in KY and I've seen at least one post (sorry, no link) on the Tnet forums stating KY has very restrictive detecting laws for public areas. I'd hate to miss out on all the potential finds in the smaller towns because of restrictive state laws.

The times I've ever gotten permission to detect in a spot/town that was off-limits (by specific verbage) to detecting, was in-lieu of historical research/museum work. So your best bet to getting some bureaucrat to say "yes" where a specific "no" exists, is to immerse yourself in local historical society volunteering, etc... Then presto, you're "doing research" and you "represent such & such to add items for display in the museum", blah blah

Your rumor that KY is somehow unique or more restrictive than other states is maybe d/t some flap that circulated on the net years ago. It involved some clips or quotes from a university archie, who had made comments (subsequently picked up by media and links to forums, etc...) where some purist archie made the claim that no one can dare turn a spade in the ground (school yards, parks, etc...) to dig up the past. The archie actually believed this meant *all* state land, border to border, of ANY public level (state, city, county, and maybe even private? I dunno). But a careful reading of KY's own laws/statutes proved this wrong. It was only spots SPECIFICALLY deemed to be archaeolgically significant. Not simply "all land". Sites that get the designation (a trinomial #, etc...) are those spots. But no, not simply all land, border to border. This purist archie had interpretted it all wrong, yet would not be dissuaded. But go figure, purist archies hate md'ing to begin with, so their every word will be colored with disdain and worst-possible interpretations of such things.

But once the links/quotes got on the net, the rumor was not easily quelled. Squeemish skittish md'rs read such bologna, and figured "how can you argue with a duly appointed public employee agent ?" But it was pure hogwash. And I assure you, there is plenty of md'ing going on in KY (gasp).

I mean, sure, stay clear of obvious historical sensitive monuments, of course.

 

[cudamark]

I'm surprised that Tom didn't advise you against asking for permission! He must not have had his Wheaties this morning. Most officials, bureaucrats, rangers, and park workers don't know the law either so asking them is pretty much asking for a NO. That's the easiest way for them and no skin off their nose if you don't hunt. Saying Yes just opens them up to reprimand if you do something wrong and word gets to their supervisor that they gave permission. Find the ordinance yourself. If it doesn't exist or there is no mention of metal detecting, there is no prohibition against it. Just use some discretion and proper recovery techniques and you'll be fine.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

reply

I'm surprised that Tom didn't advise you against asking for permission!...

haha Mark I figured since Hunter-hound was asking "where can I find the laws/rules", that it was implied that that was the route to go. Ie.: look it up for oneself.

But yes: As Mark says: Look it up for yourself. Don't be the next victim of "no one cared.... TILL you asked"

 

[Hunterhound]

Well I appreciate the information from you both. Very informative and exciting. One of the areas I'm considering looking seems, from the history of the town, like it will be a virtual treasure trove of relics if not already hit by another detectorist. The question regarding city/county laws was born after reviewing the town's website and not finding any laws against detecting. The only policies/laws I could find regarding public activity related to curfew and the like for minors. I think the risk to being interrupted in this area will be low anyway considering the layout of the town and surrounding areas blocks line-of-sight pretty well; I just have to figure out where I want to hunt in the area now. There's so much ground to cover.

 

[cudamark]

I would start with whatever seems to be the most likely spot for human activity. Stake out a 10X10 area and dig every sound. If it's productive, grid that whole area. If it's not productive, pick another 10X10 area in the next most likely area. If that's not productive, spend an hour wandering around to see if anything good comes to light. If not, move on to another site.

 

[danloop]

Mayor's office (my city) told me that metal detecting is allowed but no digging. I took that to be an ok as long as I am careful to not leave any trace or get caught with a tool in the ground.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Mayor's office (my city) told me that metal detecting is allowed but no digging. I took that to be an ok as long as I am careful to not leave any trace or get caught with a tool in the ground.

Well gee, this is a common answer from desk-bound bureaucrat's, to the "pressing question" of "can I metal detect" . Why? Because of course the knee-jerk mental connotations is ..... after all ..... HOLES (digging, etc...). Right? Even if you know perfectly well you will leave no trace, yet to the person you're asking, what's their mental image? Geeks with shovels, right? So what did you THINK the easy answer was going to be? Either "no", or "yes but you can't dig".

And I notice that rather than take that answer literally, you are still going to "dig", but figure you're within the spirit of his admonition, so long as you leave no trace. Oh me oh my, what is this world coming to ?? Laying low and avoiding busy-bodies? Say it isn't so !