Ledge vs Vein?

[OwenT]

Previously I was always under the impression that "ledge" was just a common way for the old-timers to say a mineralized vein. Yesterday I was reading Mining in the Pacific Northwest (Hodges) and he mentioned both ledges and veins as if there was some distinction. I wonder if a ledge us actually a different type of deposit, outcrop, environment or orientation from a ledge?

 

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[tamrock]

I'm not sure. I've seen in history book the term ledge used, but I think I'll just stick with vein. Here in mining terminology 101 they call a ledge and vein one in the same with the term lode. I guess it's like the hood of your car in the US is a hood, but in Canada it's a bonnet https://www.legendsofamerica.com/we-miningterms/3/#i

 

[arizau]

Maybe it has something to do with the angle at which the vein lies....close to horizontal could be termed a ledge?

 

[Jason in Enid]

I always thought that "ledge" referred to an exposed load vein on the face of a cliff or wall.

 

[tamrock]

Yeah once long ago the placer miners could follow the source of the gold to the mother load, which probably was an outcrop on the side of a mountain that would be described as a ledge. Today most, if not all of the untappd free gold outcroppings have been found and mined out extensively. Those sure where the days you really wanted to be a prospector.

 

[dave wiseman]

....and a vein that does not surface is called a blind vein.

 

[N-Lionberger]

IIRC Mark Twain discusses ledges, veins and blind leads in reference to his experiences of Virginia City in Roughing It.

 

[Clay Diggins]

The General Mining Act mentions "ledge" 5 times when describing mineral deposits. Clearly the law sees ledges as distinct from lodes or veins.

SEC. 3. That the locators of all mining locations heretofore made, or which shall hereafter be made, on any mineral vein, lode, or ledge , situated on the public domain, their heirs and assigns, where no adverse claim exists at the passage of this act, so long as they comply with the laws of the United States, and with State, territorial, and local regulations not in conflict with said laws of the United States governing their possessory title, shall have the exclusive right of possession and enjoyment of all the surface included within the lines of their locations, and of all veins, lodes, and ledges throughout their entire depth, the top or apex of which lies inside of such surface-lines extended downward vertically, although such veins, lodes, or ledges may so far depart from a perpendicular in their course downward as to extend outside the vertical side-lines of said surface locations: Provided, That their right of possession to such outside parts of said veins or ledges shall be confined to such portions thereof as lie between vertical planes drawn downward as aforesaid, through the endlines of their locations. so continued in their own direction that such planes will intersect such exterior parts of said veins or ledges : And provided further, That nothing in this section shall authorize the locator or possessor of a vein or lode which extends in its downward course beyond the vertical lines of his claim to enter upon the surface of a claim owned or possessed by another.

The legal definition of a ledge is:
A narrow shelf or projection of rock, much longer than wide, formed on a rock wall or cliff face.

M. W. von Bernewitz in his book Handbook for prospectors and operators of small mines probably gives the least confusing definition:

The only true ledges are deposits of oil-shale, slate, or the like. A ledge is a horizontal layer, therefore a vein or lode is not a ledge.

(By the way if you ever see this book get a copy if you can. It was the main guide for small miners during the depression. Good stuff.)

The fact that Congress and miners found the distinction so important should be a big tip off that it's not the same as veins or lodes. Does anybody care to take a shot at why that would be?

Think mineral rights.

Heavy Pans

 

[N-Lionberger]

Handbook for prospectors and operators of small mines is a neat book, I have a copy bound in aligator skin with a 4 leaf clover pasted in the title page, its safe away in storage, I had two other copies one tragically destroyed the other stolen.

 

[tamrock]

The fact that Congress and miners found the distinction so important should be a big tip off that it's not the same as veins or lodes. Does anybody care to take a shot at why that would be?


I guess it'll be better to call an attorney to clarify what exactly defines a ledge.

 

[RTR]

While out Scouting an area all this black-sand caught my eye I returned a month later during a Major drought
to find this exposed (that was underwater on my 1st trip there) And tons of quarts And yes 'old yeller' was hiding in the 'veins' ,on a 'ledge' that was 5 ft underwater a month ago

 

[Goldwasher]

The General Mining Act mentions "ledge"5 times when describing mineral deposits. Clearly the law sees ledges as distinct from lodes or veins.


The legal definition of a ledge is:
A narrow shelf or projection of rock, much longer than wide, formed on a rock wall or cliff face.

M. W. von Bernewitz in his book Handbook for prospectors and operators of small mines probably gives the least confusing definition:

(By the way if you ever see this book get a copy if you can. It was the main guide for small miners during the depression. Good stuff.)

The fact that Congress and miners found the distinction so important should be a big tip off that it's not the same as veins or lodes. Does anybody care to take a shot at why that would be?

Think mineral rights.

Heavy Pans

Extra lateral rights? An exposed ledge being the exposure of what could be the foot or hanging wall or mineralized vein of the lode in an adjacent working?? Something something...??

 

[Clay Diggins]

The fact that Congress and miners found the distinction so important should be a big tip off that it's not the same as veins or lodes. Does anybody care to take a shot at why that would be?


I guess it'll be better to call an attorney to clarify what exactly defines a ledge.

Probably not a good idea.

California mining lawyers arguing about the definition of "ledge" in relation to the Comstock lode claims sunk the chances of Nevada becoming a state.

Better to go with what miners (who wrote the law) have considered a ledge for hundreds of years. A horizontal mineral exposure. Get lawyers involved and a multi year discussion of whether a bicycle could be considered a ledge could occur. There's all kinds of ways to waste good money and time that would be more fun than that.

Heavy Pans

 

[Clay Diggins]

Extra lateral rights? An exposed ledge being the exposure of what could be the foot or hanging wall or mineralized vein of the lode in an adjacent working?? Something something...??

Think of the different types of minerals deposited. Silver and galena (lead) are often ledge deposits. Uranium is almost always deposited as a ledge.

It's not always about gold. Although gold has sometimes been discovered as a ledge deposit. Think Australia's rich gold reefs.


Heavy Pans

 

[StreamlineGold]

I can see that definition getting sticky when it comes to extra lateral rights..who owns the apex.