Lead item (tax stamp or rosette??)

[1dirtyknee]

Hello all. Haven't posted in awhile. I found this lead item last week. It is slightly larger than a quarter and has some type of hook/clasp fashioned to it. No markings/writing. I was thinking it was either a tax stamp/seal or something else. Found it in same locating as 2 three ringers.

 

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[CRUSADER]

Yeap, think your right, its looks like what we would call a cloth seal. Quality seal for export cloth.

Slightly different from a bag seal which uses a wire. Cloth seals have no wire.

 

[TheDane]

Hi

If you clean it a bit more under water with a soft brush, you actually could be lucky to find some writing.

I believe, I see some writing (a letter or two) on the middle part in the buttom photo.
You found the back side of a cloth seal, but the middle part was on the front. The counter part has writing and a hole in the middle, where your middle part on the lower picture was sitting. (Hope you understand !? :P )

It might be very old ! Maybe as old as the 17th -18th century !

agersea

 

[TheDane]

Here a picture of my best cloth seal find. A large German clothseal.
You can see the writing clearly, and the smal middle part. On you find the front ring is missing, but on the middle part could be writing, that could identify it.

agersea

 

[1dirtyknee]

Thanks. I see what you are talking about on the photo. The photo made some details come out better. I think I see a star in the middle portion of the bottom photo. I'll clean it better and let you know what I find. Great picture of your seal.

 

[1dirtyknee]

I cleaned it some more and found two five-pointed stars on the left side of the bottom picture...no writing. I managed to break off the attaching piece!!! Do you know of any references that might help me identify what I have?

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Some pics: http://ourpasthistory.com/Gallery/bagseals?page=1

 

[1dirtyknee]

These seem to be fairly common in Europe. How often are they found in the US?

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

These seem to be fairly common in Europe. How often are they found in the US?

What state did you find it in?

 

[TheDane]

Could you post some new close up photos of the cleaned seal, please ??

Unfortunately studies of cloth seals has not been made by many scientists yet.
So a precise dating and provinience is difficult to get, especially, if the front is missing, like on your piece !

Maybe you can be lucky and find the other half of it the next time you surch the place !

agersea

 

[CRUSADER]

These fairly common finds(not so in the US) are little researched & you would be extremely lucky to get an ID off just 2 stars. Its always the case that we know more about the rare finds than everyday ones, as these are the things chosen to be researched.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Could you post some new close up photos of the cleaned seal, please ??

My pic is clear on the two stars. This link mentions finding a lead seal with star on the rivet side. (#20) http://www.geocities.com/losttownsproject/leadseals

This cloth seal of lead shows the form a cloth seal took before it was attached to a cloth. When a cloth was to be sealed, the central bar was folded and the projecting lug at one end was threaded through the hole in the other. The name of the town or individual on the seal was impressed into the lead as the seal was squeezed tight. The seal therefore shows a place at which the sealing of cloth was carried out.

 

[1dirtyknee]

These seem to be fairly common in Europe. How often are they found in the US?

What state did you find it in?

I found this in Northern Virginia, near the Potomac River

 

[TheDane]

Hi again

Used some time this sunday afternoon surching ! (It´s afternoon here ! )

Your find might, and just might be a lead cloth seal of the Dutch town Haarlem.

This brought me on the track:

http://www.imacdigest.com/bale.html

Here some examples of Haarlem lead cloth seals:

http://cgi.ebay.nl/Zeer-groot-lakenlood-Haarlem-1607_W0QQitemZ250201476589QQcmdZViewItem

http://www.ukdfd.co.uk/ukdfddata/showrecords.php?product=6971&cat=131

And more:
http://www.goudanet.nl/documenten/Tidinge/2002/2002 De Goudse lakennijverheid, een bibliografie.pdf


agersea

 

[1dirtyknee]

THANKS FOR TAKING THE TIME TO TRY AND HELP ME OUT AGERSEA. LOOKS LIKE THE EXAMPLES YOU FOUND ALL HAVE 6-POINTED STARS THOUGH.