laws regarding diving on a known treasure fleet site?

[zebraup]

Hey all, I'm new to all this but I am interested in finding out the laws regarding diving and detecting on and around known fleet sites.. are they listed somewhere on this website? I had a friend tell me that you can dive on them but NOT with a metal detector... I just want to make sure I don't get arrested and have my boat impounded!

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

Agony and Death on a Gold Rush Steamer: The Disastrous Sinking of the Side-Wheeler Yankee Blade - Grab it through Amazon!

[rgecy]

You are correct. You may dive on these sites, but do not bring a metal detector!

 

[ivan salis]

you may dive and look at the wrecksites -- however you can not have a detector with you nor can you take anything out of the area * after all its their "leased" site --(the follks that own the leases today both fought in court for the vessels and have had to paid money over the years to the state of florida for permits to hunt those sites )

 

[zebraup]

so how do you find out the limits of the area? does it stretch all the way to the beach or is there a specific footprint that is the area leased? are there markers that define it?

 

[sabre15]

I think all companies should only be allowed one lease at a time, basically these "Business Persons" have taken up all of the wothwhile treasure spots on Florida's East Coast all the way to the Keys. Leaving the little guy out of the inalienable rights and freedoms we should enjoy.

 

[scubatreasure]

I read in sports illustrated 6 years ago and obscure article about local treasure coast fishing charters and diving charters cleaning up the debris trail of known wreck sites legally and quietly ...and very profitably

 

[SebastianSam]

If the article was in Sports Illustrated, I am not sure how it could be "obscure."

How does a fishing charter "clean up a debris trail of a wreckiste" exactly?

In 20+ years of salvaging wrecks along the Treasure Coast, I have never seen a dive shop cattle boat bring divers to a leased shipwreck site. They know better.

Sam

 

[scubatreasure]

I'll make sure to locate article and post it here for you to read....and i don't see how it is that you can watch out over vast expansions of ocean while you are say salvaging...

I'm not saying that you are wrong but that maybe they were right. and it said debris trail not on a leased site debris trails can run for miles...

by "obscure" i meant that i found it in the back of the magazine, no listing in the front cover like all the other articles...

after 28 years of salvaging wrecks off the coast of NJ , NY, including some inland rivers and lakes...i can see how anything is possible

having had a boaters operating license issued by the state of NJ for 31 years and a fisherman for lets say about 35 years , i have a damn good idea how exactly it is that they clean up the debris trail...they were dragging lots of other things behind their boats before the mag. came along...nets dredges clam rakes etc...

Limo Bob

 

[rgecy]

I think all companies should only be allowed one lease at a time, basically these "Business Persons" have taken up all of the wothwhile treasure spots on Florida's East Coast all the way to the Keys. Leaving the little guy out of the inalienable rights and freedoms we should enjoy.

Kip Wagner, Mel Fisher, etc were the little guys when they started! Even if they had only one, all of the wrecks sites they are working today have been known for many years. Either way, one lease or ten, someone would already have them today and all the other little guys would still need to find their own wreck!

The "Business" of salvage is just that, its a business. It takes lots of money to fund a salvage operation. Permits, attorneys, archaeologist, boats, conservation lab, divers, etc. are all needed. The "little guy" will not always have the finacial capability to do this!

If you want to work these sites the Fishers have made it very easy. You get the boat, dive gear, gas and the divers, they provide the rest. You pay them a fee to be a subcontractor and now you can work any one of the wrecksites they have. How much better could it be?

As for the location of the wreck sites, I will post a quote from wreckdiver1715.

There are no Florida laws or state statutes that prohibit you from diving with a metal detector. It is true however, that you must stay out of leased sites (see below), and out of some protected habitats with your detector. Additionally, you must abide by Florida law should you find anything on the bottom and recover it. Don't; effective 1 June 2005, the state of Florida did away with the Isolated Finds program. This program gave treasure hunters the opportunity to keep the find as long as they provided the state with the location.

It is now against the law to recover anything in state waters more than 50 years old. As a diver you are responsible for knowing these laws and locations before you dive with your detector. In Florida state waters include all submerged bottom lands to include lakes, rivers and three miles out into the ocean on the East coast, nine miles out on the Gulf Coast, and twelve miles out from Key West.

Inside State parks you are required to get written permission from the Park Ranger before you hunt in the park. However, the State does allow metal detectors in some state parks. Not so with the Fed's! Do not bring your detector into a Florida National park, and that includes any beaches, or waters adjacent to the National Park. For example the Canaveral Seashore National Park is patrolled by park police by land, sea and air, and there boats can out run mine. They have strict orders to keep treasure hunters away.

You can dive on Mel Fisher wrecks on the treasure coast if you so desire. However, be advised that you should not have a metal detector in the lease sites, and you must stay 300 feet away from the dive boats that are working the leases, and don't bring the detector within 3,000 yards (while in the water) of the GPS coordinates listed below.

There are no private beaches in the State of Florida (other than the National Parks), and you are allowed to hunt the beaches from the Dune to the low tide line as you desire, and that includes the beaches adjacent to the 1715 fleet of Spanish shipwrecks. The rule on the beach is finders keepers, so don't let any beachside Condo owners or Hotel operators try to run you off, as they do not own the beach, the people of Florida own the beaches.

A note of caution while hunting on the beach at night, starting in May - October it is turtle nesting season, and artificial lighting is forbidden on the beach, especially in Brevard and Indian River County?s, help us protect our endangered and protected wildlife.

BENT ANCHOR S32G 27.55.7N X 80.29.12W; East to 27.55.7N X 80.28.57W; South-southeast to 27.53.28N X 80.27.24W; West to 27.53.28N X 80.27.68W; then follow the mean low tide line to point of beginning.
CABIN WRECK S27 27.49.8N X 80.25.55W is the center point of a 3,000 yard radius excluding all land west of mean low tide line.
DOUGLAS BEACH S26 27.25.3N X 80.16.50W is the center point of a 3,000 yard radius excluding all land west of the mean low tide line.
POWER PLANT S25 27.21.2N X 80.13.65W is the center point of a 3,000 yard radius excluding all land west of the mean low tide line.
ANCHOR WRECK S23 27.48.2N X 80.24.70W is the center point of a 3,000 yard radius excluding all land west of the mean low tide line.
SPRING OF WHITBY S23 27.46.0N X 80.23.83W is the center point of a 3,000 yard radius excluding all land west of the mean low tide line.
RIO MAR S23 27.38.3N X 80.20.90W is the center point of a 3,000 yard radius excluding all land west of the mean low tide line.
SANDY POINT S23 27.35.8N X 80.19.65W is the center point of a 3,000 yard radius excluding all land west of the mean low tide line.
UNKNOWN S23 27.19.0N X 80.12.30W is the center point of a 3,000 yard radius excluding all land west of the mean low tide line.
CORRIGANS WRECK S25 27.46.2N X 80.22.67W is the center point of a 3,000 yard radius excluding all land west of the mean low tide line.

 

[diverlynn]

I think all companies should only be allowed one lease at a time, basically these "Business Persons" have taken up all of the wothwhile treasure spots on Florida's East Coast all the way to the Keys. Leaving the little guy out of the inalienable rights and freedoms we should enjoy.

sabre15,
If it were not for those "business people", more than likely this industry would not exist. You think they bought their way to where they are? They lost family members doing what they loved, they stand behind all of the reputable salvors in Florida for the cause, they employ many people in Florida and have brought much revenue when it is obviously needed.

Read up

Diverlynn

 

[zebraup]

thanks for this VERY informative post!! I guess it's alot tougher to achieve my what I thought was a modest goal of finding a single coin to make into a necklace one day... and I'm sure that the laws regarding finding buried treasure inland are even more restrictive, huh?

 

[wreckdiver1715]

Just to add a note. It is still finders keepers on the Beach between the base (toe), of the dune and the average low tide line. And that includes all the beaches adjacent to the 1715 fleet wreck sites. Well, the known ones anyway, and I'm not telling where the unknown ones are!

 

[sabre15]

Hey Diverlynn, I've lost family and friends that fought for this country, I'm not going to debate on who's sacrifice is greater, it's just that we as a common people have truly lost all freedoms when out in the ocean our government and fellow man claim to own it!

 

[sabre15]

Oh and by the way I have no beef with finders keepers, even in the water, I probably should point my anger torward our government more than anything. But, if it is finders keepers these "Business People" should be limited to allow more future generation Mel Fishers out there. I believe some of these bigger companies have hurt the future of the industry for the little guy.

 

[diverlynn]

sabre15,
I have a son in the army right now and my father was a vet. My point has nothing to do with "fighting for a country" all I was trying to get across is that it isn't a matter of just walk out into the water and pick up treasure. Years of research, empty holes, pop tops, risks and, yes, lives go into this business. I am defending the Fisher family because I believe, even though they have found treasures that I will never equal, that they honestly love bringing these artifacts to the public (and to the state ). They are "business people" if they were not I am sure Mel would not have gotten as far as he did and accomplished as much for the industry. The little guys can't afford to do this any longer without the current available equipment, on the Polly L, our expenses ran over $1000 a day to do a proper job.
You want a lease? Build up years of reputation as they did and maybe the state will answer your calls.
And yes, there is a new generation doing just that. Who do you think I am or Mad4wrecks, Scubasalvor, Grecy, Scubatreasure and many more on here.
You should go back and look at the all the posts and research these guys discuss and share before you judge us or the fishers.

If you have a beef, send your congressman a letter, Lord knows we all have!

Diverlynn

 

[rgecy]

Sabre,

The Law of the Sea has been around for several hundred years. This is not something new that businesses have invented in the last 50 years. Salvage rights have been decided in a court of law long before anyone on this board even existed.

Without these laws you would have people shooting each other over the rights to salvage a vessel. It has happened, just do some reading. Bob Marx for example!

Let me ask you this, who is the little guy? Because the little guy starts out little but can become a big business just like these other companies. These companies have done more for our rights to salvage these wrecks than any ever has. Mel Fisher (one of the little guys) took on the State of Florida and the Federal Government in the 1980's and went on to win one of the biggest court cases ever. Odyssey Marine is fighting the battel right now against Spain and has also put money towards the fight against Florida in protecting our rights.

 

[sabre15]

Thats exactly the point, there no longer is a little guy. There is no way in hell a guy starting out will ever be able to be an Odyssey or Fisher type group unless they hit the Lottery and that probably would not be enough to stay afloat. Yes their always has been a law of the Sea, but it has never been like it is now with all the legal rambling. Sit back for a moment and put yourself in the shoe of Joe Ohio, he comes to Florida, Keys area lets say, I think someone just discussed this topic recently. He and the wife want to do some beach and some snorkel metal detecting. These leases stop tourism in its tracks, I agree the State is at blame also, infact I hate Government, but for these leases to encroach on what I feel is my god given right just isn't fair. Yeah you may say I am whining but I think their are alot of people out there who agree. For the record I am not Joe Ohio.
I own my own business, I agree with Diverlyn about the sacrifices and money spent, but as a treasure hunting community we also need to stop fighting for our rights but for all of the other citizens that are not as dedicated or have no clue on what the Government has done to our sport.
I have contacted my congressman, he is also a personal friend, and I do get involved.

 

[sabre15]

Hey Diverlyn, I am not trying to argue with you, you have valid points. I just feel that sometimes we lose sight of what is relly important. I understand that this is also a business and I am sure you and many more have a big stake in this career field. I don't want you guys to think I am being direspectful, especially of Mel, he is a true hero and was so ahead of his time. I just want people to understand their are 2 sides of the fence at play, I respect what you do and I hope I am respected for my opinion. You can only vent to the government so long until they shut you off or sick the IRS on you. This is just a good outlet to get the anger out!

PS: If you ever need an extra deck hand or experienced Diver, I would love to see how you Big guys really do it.

 

[ScubaDude]

Sabre,
Welcome to Treasure net. I sympathize with you and most other people. I don't want to turn this into a political rant, but honestly what industry or activity haven't our lawyers and governments over-regulated or litigated to it's detriment or death. You really can't do much of anything in the US or elsewhere fun and profitable without a permit, insurance, and compliance with a whole host of other requirements being laid upon you. Treasure hunting is no different, if fact it is worse since you have more groups with different competing interests. Unfortunately laws aren't written to keep honest people honest, or give everyone a fair shake. They are often pushed and crafted to protect or please certain special interests.

Did you expect in your life as a pirate on the sea not to be burdened by them? Free will is still somewhat reigned in out there also.

The other thing that has to be said in this is that it is everyone's history lying out there, and yes there are some neat extra coins and such too. However the resource has to have some form of protection and order, otherwise it isn't going to last long. Whether it rots away, gets looted, or is lucky enough to be discovered and have someone expend the necessary time and energy to figure out what exactly it is and how it got there......

For the fortunate few that have the determination to tough it out through think and thin, there are an even fewer amount that actually recover a scant portion of their costs. Most do not. Treasure Hunting is akin to other things in life - the grass usually looks greener until you're actually standing on it most times. You either love it and bust your tail trying or you don't. It is also like Lynn said, it does not happen over night, it involves a lot of time, money, sweat, love, more money, cut fingers, patience, and more time than most people realize. It also takes a considerable set of skilled and dedicated people to pull it off. The equipment needs aren't cheap either. If you can't afford to do it this way you likely will walk away unsatisfied, short of the prize.

Coins are neat but the people you meet and the places you travel are the real treasures.

Read through the older threads, we've had these and other similar discusions before.

Enjoy.

 

[rgecy]

Sabre, I think you really need to read up on the current situation and the battles that have been fought and are being fought right now.

No one has ever said you cant detect on the beach. It is still finders keepers from the mean low water mark to the dune line. As for recovery of artifacts underwater or on land(asside from lease areas), the State of Florida (and many others now) says that it is illegal for anyone without a permit to recover anything older than 50 years old.

Even if there was only 1 lease per salvor or salvage company, all the ones you speak of would be taken by now anyway by little guys like Joe Ohio. So instead of one Mel Fisher we would have 10-20 Joe Ohio who probably cant afford to salvage the wreck properly anyway and therefore it would never get done.

So the only way for your scenario to work would be to abolish the leases all together and convince the governments and archies that they have no right to them either. Good Luck with that!

Then we would have every Joe Ohio and Joe Blow diving on these wrecks, using dynamite to destroy the reefs and wrecks and any archaeologically significant data all to hell. Not mention when one finds a pocket of gold or silver, the other wants to hord in on it and now they are in a dispute over who owns it or who found it first. So, what do they do? Maybe we settle this the old fashion way and have us a good old gun fight or duel! Without laws, it WILL happen!