Last Hunt of 2007(Chewed Bullet)

[gmstreet]

I got to sneak out for an hour New Years Eve.

More Beverly, WV finds.

Greg(gmstreet)

 

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[Gribnitz]

I'm not sure why people are so against the idea of pain bullets, when common sense tells us that they should and could exist due to the above reasoning. Anyway the bullet I found does not have shallow bite marks, they are deep. To deep to be made by a person casually nibbleling on a bullet. The person that bit this bullet used some force, the kind of force you might use if you were in extreme pain..

Greg

The problem I have with "pain" bullets is that it makes no sense whatsoever. If you as a doctor are going to saw off someones leg or arm and have a patient lashing around (choloroform used or not), why in the world would you use a bullet that surely would lodge in the throat and choke them to death when you could use a leather belt or wooden dowel, anything.....anything would be better than a small bullet which is the perfect size to choke someone if it was swallowed. Our ancestors of only 150 years ago were not cavemen, they would not have done this. Even if they were at the most remote ourcrop of rock outside civilization, something else would have been available if they needed it...shoe leather, harness bridle, sticks, a rolled up shirt....anything.

As for the business of chewing lead due to boredom, I can believe that, but human teeth are not going to mash a bullet flat. Our jaws aren't strong enough without breaking all your teeth. I have several "chewed" bullets. I think a couple may be human, but most are definately animal, problaby hog since they have really powerful jaws and have similar looking teeth.

 

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[{Sentinel}]

GMStreet, we have GONE ROUND AND ROUND with others on this site and SOME WILL NEVER believe even though it is such a really petty thing to argue about. People bit bullets period....They still do......When I have gone Black Powder hunting I have know old friends that bit on the lead bullets. IT Happened. Lots of experts and scientists say things that are NOT 100 percent accurate or even known to be at all facts. The fact is that you can go around and around with these people. If they want to be SO VEHEMENTLY opposed to the fact that people in Warfare in the 19th century chewed on bullets than let them. The fact is that it is not a FEAT OF NATURE to chew on a lead bullet. It is very easy and it happened. I mean....you can ask WHY just about anything that people do. GMStreet, If you want to do your own scientific testing and aren't afraid(I wasnt), take 1 piece of lead (could be a fishing weight or anything similar to simulate a minie ball if you dont have one), 1 arm, 1 hand and 1 mouth. Place the lead bullet in said hand, carefully and slowly move hand to the mouth and open. Then, proceed to bite down on the lead bullet. You will then remove lead and find.....VIOLA, you know have a Chewed or BITTEN Bullet!! Its as easy as 1-2-3! GMStreet, in closing, I think that your reasoning is dead on so you just let your mind and common sense be your guide in this matter my good friend

 

[BioProfessor]

I don't think anyone is disputing the fact that soldiers chewed bullets. They did. Period. Native Americans chewed on rocks. Chewing on anything stimulates salivation and satisfies thirst. What people are saying is that the bullets that have the very deep and heavy single tooth marks were not chewed by humans but my animals. Most likely hogs rooting for food. The strength of a human tooth and jaw muscle is incapable of putting that kind of pressure on a lead bullet and surviving.

So YES people (soldiers) DID chew bullets and leave some tooth marks but they were not used to bite while they were operated on and they did not leave the very heavy and very deep marks. They probably marched and chewed on a bullet on a daily basis and spit it out when they got tired of it.

Daryl

 

[shanegalang]

Cant say I've ever bit a bullet but I did put air rifle pellets in my mouth as a kid. I think they were warmer on my fingers when I put them in the gun. The pig theory sounds best to me. And also I agree that in those circumstances it would have been allot of extra trouble to get a bullet out of the casing just for someone to choke on. I agree that leather or something else readily available would have made more sense. Cool find at any rate.........all I've found in my civil war rich area is a 1943 spent 50 cal casing.

 

[{Sentinel}]

Well, I dont disagree that some "feral hogs" may have found a three ringer here or there....But, I clearly was able to put VERY Deep bite marks into a REAL Civil War Minie ball. Therefore, I take the advice of reality over what someone else says. I have the pictures to show that it takes a matter of about 10 seconds to produce a Mangled minie ball with DEEP bite marks. They are literally found EVERYWHERE in the Civil War sites I hunt as well. SO, GMStreet that is 'Food for thought.....you do the Dishes'

 

[BioProfessor]

SHOW US THE BULLET - MINNIE AND 3-RINGER - your teeth!!!

Daryl

 

[{Sentinel}]

SHOW US THE BULLET - MINNIE AND 3-RINGER - your teeth!!!

Daryl

Daryl,

If you'll recall, the last time we had this little discussion I did the "bite the bullet" test. All you have to do is to refer back to that post. If not, I will gladly take a new picture of me biting the bullet. Heck, I will even post a short MPEG of me doing it.

 

[BioProfessor]

The movie sounds good to me. Half the diameter of the bullet will be a good enough bite. That's the type bite we are looking for and talking about. Back molars are the ones that "appear" in the chewed bullets not the pointed teeth. That's not where someone in pain would put the bullet. It would have to be in the back to be able to hold it.

Popcorn is on the stove.

Daryl

 

[{Sentinel}]

Let me see if I can find the old post. Yes, indeed, I concur, the molars ARE the only teeth that will dent the lead, I Know from experience LMAO If I cannot, I will delete some files on my SDCard and do a MPEG. I would rather NOT destroy another Minie, BUT will in the name of evidence

 

[BioProfessor]

Now if we can just find somebody to cut off your leg.

Daryl

 

[{Sentinel}]

Now if we can just find somebody to cut off your leg.

Daryl

LMAO at above.


GMStreet, the below link is from the first time we visited this subject. It shows a picture of ME biting the bullet and then the picture of the minie AFTER.


Heres the link: Remember, this picture was from chewing on the bullet for only a FEW seconds. Indeed, I could have totally mangled the bullet given just a few minutes....Let alone an hour or more.

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,112760.0.html

 

[BioProfessor]

I looked at the picture. Those are the shallow bites one would make just chewing on a bullet. That's not it. We are talking about the single bite mark that leaves the impression of a single molar at least half way through the bullet. Those are the ones we humans can't make.

Daryl

 

[civilman1]

Tell me this is a feral hog

 

[BioProfessor]

It's a feral hog.

Daryl

 

[BioProfessor]

You got it!

Daryl

 

[civilman1]

Who say's you had to chew a bullet just for medical reason's...

 

[BioProfessor]

Not me.

Daryl

 

[civilman1]

Well who say's or even identified that this particular bullet was a "medical bullet".I really don't think anyone can specifically say that this bullet can be either a "chewed" or a "medically chewed" or even a "ferral chewed".......It will never be determined.It all happened somewhere down the line.

 

[BioProfessor]

Just comes up whenever a chewed bullet comes up.

Is it chewed? Yes. No doubt.

Who/what chewed it? Don't know.

Can we tell the difference between a human and and an animal chewed bullet? Yes.

Humans can only chew with a certain amount of force before the teeth break. The jaw muscles are capable of exerting only so much force.

A bullet with a deep single bite mark, where a large tooth impression is seen, was bitten by an animal (most likely a feral hog).

A bullet with many small, sharp, relatively shallow marks or one that is flattened by chewing was most likely chewed by a human to relieve thirst or boredom.

That's about all we can say for sure.

Daryl Adams, Ph.D.
Professor Emeritus of Biology

 

[relikhunter]

Cool Find's and a great History lesson Way to go guy's rh