large tool arrowhead

[billvettman]

Here is an item I found years ago as a kid, anyone know anything on this Ma. find.http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/a...tachmentid=1513010&d=1509970737&thumb=1&stc=1

 

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[Tpmetal]

Im not positive but this may be nature playing a trick on us. Looks so much like an arrow head though that i'm not sure.

 

[diggingthe1]

Sure looks like a whopper!!! They must have been hunting something large!!! Glad you still have it.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Hello and welcome to TreasureNet.

Sorry, from pictures posted it is a natural rock that happens to have small resemblance to a arrowhead.

 

[arrow86]

I would disagree unless other pic were posted the one I'm seeing definitely looks like a knife to me

 

[Charl]

I've collected in Ma and RI my whole life, and there is no doubt in my mind that that is an artifact. You can see the original pebble or cobble cortex in the first two photos, and the flaking where it was being reduced. It looks like one of our regional rhyolites, though I'm not certain if the first or second photo is the natural color. I'm not certain, but I think it's possible the maker had not finished knapping it. In other words, it's still in an unfinished stage. But, I've been roaming around and finding things like that my whole life hereabouts, and its an artifact for sure.

 

[Charl]

I think what can fool folks here is the fact that it's likely in an unfinished stage of production, as well as the appearance of poor quality lithics common to New England pieces. If you don't know our regional rhyolites, it can look like a rock, more so if the piece is still a stage and not finished. If I had to guess type, the type of shoulders and the lobate shape stem suggests Adena related, but normally the stem would not be that short on an Adena related piece. Another possibility would be a Lagoon point, but that's questionable as well because the shoulders are almost always much weaker in Lagoons. Still a piece of prehistory, and hence still a nice find, IMHO....

Edit: here is an example of a poor New England lithic, argillite of a type that is argillaceous slate(in contrast, Pa argillite is argillaceous shale), showing the original cobble cortex and a minimum of reduction or flaking. In this instance, it's actually a finished piece, as this is an end pick, which was a tool used in steatite quarrying in southern New England. But, I have to imagine it could easily be judged as "just a rock" if one is simply not used to seeing lithics as poor as this....

 

[Tpmetal]

I think what can fool folks here is the fact that it's likely in an unfinished stage of production, as well as the appearance of poor quality lithics common to New England pieces. If you don't know our regional rhyolites, it can look like a rock, more so if the piece is still a stage and not finished. If I had to guess type, the type of shoulders and the lobate shape stem suggests Adena related, but normally the stem would not be that short on an Adena related piece. Another possibility would be a Lagoon point, but that's questionable as well because the shoulders are almost always much weaker in Lagoons. Still a piece of prehistory, and hence still a nice find, IMHO....

Edit: here is an example of a poor New England lithic, argillite of a type that is argillaceous slate(in contrast, Pa argillite is argillaceous shale), showing the original cobble cortex and a minimum of reduction or flaking. In this instance, it's actually a finished piece, as this is an end pick, which was a tool used in steatite quarrying in southern New England. But, I have to imagine it could easily be judged as "just a rock" if one is simply not used to seeing lithics as poor as this....

View attachment 1513031

If thats an artifact then I got thousands of slate artifacts sitting in my yard. In fact I create them every time I dig a fence post hole and have to break out the breaker bar to remove the rocks. Is there really evidence of slate being used to stone tools? seems like a poor choice.(not trying to offend I really am just ignorant on the subject and this seems unlikely from my life experiences that these are artifacts)

 

[billvettman]

Large tool arrowhead

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/a...asset.php?fid=1246163&uid=121940&d=1510005072

Here are more photo's showing the other edge and thickness of the peace. I hear what Tpmetal is saying buy it looks like nature could have flaked the top area (big chunks) but it looks like edge flaking as well to sharpen. I thought it was a Knife as well, someone said years ago that it might be a point for whaling. I think Charl's statement that it is an unfinished peace sound's good to me and I would like to think thats what it is. The peace was found on my property back in the 60's and there is no slate there.

Thanks for all the help as I am new to this arrowhead hunting but I am learning thanks to you all.http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1513140&d=1510007289&thumb=1&stc=1http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1513142&d=1510007397&thumb=1&stc=1

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

No offense meant, but not sure why people want to collect "maybes" instead of real artifacts. I see nothing in pictures that say artifact, at best it is a "maybe".

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[rock]

Nice study piece I like finding them in different stages.

 

[Charl]

If thats an artifact then I got thousands of slate artifacts sitting in my yard. In fact I create them every time I dig a fence post hole and have to break out the breaker bar to remove the rocks. Is there really evidence of slate being used to stone tools? seems like a poor choice.(not trying to offend I really am just ignorant on the subject and this seems unlikely from my life experiences that these are artifacts)

Yes, it's New England argillite, either Barrington Argillite, or possibly Nantasket Argillite. Our argillite is actually argillaceous slate, and in southeastern New England, it is the second most common lithic used, after quartz. The artifact in question, the one I illustrated, not the one that started the thread is an end pick....









This is so obvious, kinda frustrating actually trying to convince people who likely have no experience with New England argillite, and perhaps no experience with quarry tools made quickly with just basic reduction of a cobble. This is clearly bifacially reduced, with obvious cortex or rind of the argillite cobble visible on both sides, and showing reduction of that cobble. You may say you make these every time you do certain jobs, but this one is a few thousand years old, and employed in a soapstone quarry located close to the farm from where it was found. These are crude, quickly fashioned tools; don't expect to see pressure flaking or any refinement. I do expect experienced eyes to recognize argillite that shows obvious bifacial reduction. You likely just lack that experience, but myself and all my friends who collect here have no problem recognizing what is commonly found here. And, judging from the new photos by the OP, his artifact might have been intended as a heavy duty tool as well.

 

[Charl]

No offense meant, but not sure why people want to collect "maybes" instead of real artifacts. I see nothing in pictures that say artifact, at best it is a "maybe".

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Lol, well, we'll have to agree to disagree. New England collectors, and I've shown the photos of the artifact to 8 southern New England collectors since yesterday, were universal in recognizing it as a piece of rhyolite showing obvious work. Guys from outside our region who think they know better have a right to their opinions, but this could not be more obvious. The editor of one of our regional guides was actually incredulous that folks thought it was just a rock. Whatever, there's nothing "maybe" about it. It's very obvious. I'm actually not sure why people would doubt me here in fact. Been collecting in southern New England since the late 50's. Sorry to have to disagree, but I just know far more then you do in this instance. You have absolutely no experience collecting in southern New England and no experience recognizing a stage in artifact production, when a poor lithic is concerned.

 

[Charl]

BTW, from the size of that thing, I would not be surprised if it were an end pick as well. See the description and illustrations of end picks I left above in an earlier comment. They were used in tool production, as well as steatite quarry work, and come in both large and small sizes.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Lol, well, we'll have to agree to disagree. New England collectors, and I've shown the photos of the artifact to 8 southern New England collectors since yesterday, were universal in recognizing it as a piece of rhyolite showing obvious work. Guys from outside our region who think they know better have a right to their opinions, but this could not be more obvious. The editor of one of our regional guides was actually incredulous that folks thought it was just a rock. Whatever, there's nothing "maybe" about it. It's very obvious. I'm actually not sure why people would doubt me here in fact. Been collecting in southern New England since the late 50's. Sorry to have to disagree, but I just know far more then you do in this instance. You have absolutely no experience collecting in southern New England and no experience recognizing a stage in artifact production, when a poor lithic is concerned.

I have no problem with you disagreeing, we will just agree to disagree. I see nothing that says anything other than a "maybe".

 

[Charl]

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/a...asset.php?fid=1246163&uid=121940&d=1510005072

Here are more photo's showing the other edge and thickness of the peace. I hear what Tpmetal is saying buy it looks like nature could have flaked the top area (big chunks) but it looks like edge flaking as well to sharpen. I thought it was a Knife as well, someone said years ago that it might be a point for whaling. I think Charl's statement that it is an unfinished peace sound's good to me and I would like to think thats what it is. The peace was found on my property back in the 60's and there is no slate there.

Thanks for all the help as I am new to this arrowhead hunting but I am learning thanks to you all.http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1513140&d=1510007289&thumb=1&stc=1http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1513142&d=1510007397&thumb=1&stc=1

I dont believe it's slate. It looks like one of our regional rhyolites, but I am unsure which variety. The end pick I showed is argillite of the argillaceous slate variety. There is a chance your piece is a brownish argillite, as some Nantasket Argillite trends in that color, but most of my experience in Rhode Island is with Barrington Argillite. I did show your piece to several collector friends from southern New England, and they recognized it was an artifact, not a geofact. People should be able to recognized the reduction from the cortex showing in the center of your piece, but we have to allow that even highly experienced collectors, if they are not used to finding crude tools from poor lithic material, may miss the fact that it is artifactual. But, you can be assured there is no New England collector with experience who would not recognize it.

 

[Charl]

If thats an artifact then I got thousands of slate artifacts sitting in my yard. In fact I create them every time I dig a fence post hole and have to break out the breaker bar to remove the rocks. Is there really evidence of slate being used to stone tools? seems like a poor choice.(not trying to offend I really am just ignorant on the subject and this seems unlikely from my life experiences that these are artifacts)

I'll take the opportunity to provide an educational moment. Here, argillite in the form of argillaceous slate(and closely resembling slate from the Carolina slate belt) was used mostly for flaked stone tools. But, it was also not that uncommon for ground stone tools. For instance, here is an argillaceous slate adze from RI:



And "true" slate as well, was long used from the Middle Archaic through the Late Archaic in New England. Ground slate points are common on sites associated with the people who made Otter Creek points, and particularly common on Maritime Archaic sites in Maine and Canada. Here is a ground slate point found in Providence, RI years ago...

 

[Tpmetal]

Guess my slate is different then. like i said I'm no expert just speaking what the brain was processing.

 

[Old Pueblo]

Nice work on the ID.

 

[Charl]

Not to beat a dead horse, but....

Most of us prefer finished products where artifacts are concerned. I would rather find the finished form of a finely knapped projectile then a preform of the same thing. But, the truth is, the way it is in the real world, as one becomes experienced hunting for artifacts, one finds artifacts that are in all stages of manufacturing. And we can get loose in describing what we find. I do this myself. Find a biface and call it a knife. When in fact it's actually a stage in the production of a tool. A knife might have been intended, or maybe not.

My point is this: unless you've trained yourself to recognize stages in manufacturing for stone artifacts, you will pass by artifacts without even recognizing them. Yet, every single finished piece you may find, frame, and ogle over, went through stages to get to what it is in your frame. Every single one.

I don't think that much of earlier stages. I'm like anyone else, find me the nice finished piece. But, after doing this hobby for 60 years or so, if I didn't recognize earlier stages when I see them, then I have not learned much.


With that in mind, how many of the following artifacts would you toss away as a rock, would you fail to realize is in fact artifactual? Many of us, most of us in all likelihood, would not even collect them. Which is fine, it's not a duty or obligation to collect them. But, there is nothing wrong with recognizing them, and nothing wrong with the understanding of manufacturing stages that results from that recognition.