Large lead ball

[EnvoyToTheMolePeople]

I found this lead ball in a small creek right next to a major road. It seems to have been flattened along the sides quite a bit, but it is around 1-1.5 in diameter. It doesn't have any holes, so I doubt that it is a fishing weight. Maybe it's a piece of grape shot or canister shot. There was some French and Indian war activity not far away from where I found it.

Update: I just remembered that the national guard held several encampments in this town from the 1880s until the 1910s, is it possibly from one of them?

 

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[DCMatt]

Are you sure it is lead? Maybe it's the camera but the patina looks like brass or copper to me. Not that I know what it is even if it's brass or copper...

I looked for French-Indian War canister shot. All I found were iron.

The facets or 'dents' are so random. It almost looks natural.

 

[EnvoyToTheMolePeople]

Are you sure it is lead? Maybe it's the camera but the patina looks like brass or copper to me. Not that I know what it is even if it's brass or copper...

I looked for French-Indian War canister shot. All I found were iron.

The facets or 'dents' are so random. It almost looks natural.

I'm about 90% sure it's lead just because of how heavy it is. The dents are very strange, but could be the result of rolling around in the river for a very long time.

 

[DCMatt]

I'm about 90% sure it's lead just because of how heavy it is. The dents are very strange, but could be the result of rolling around in the river for a very long time.

Seems to me if it were rolling around in the river it would be smoother. I don' get it... It's a big honkin' chunk of metal whatever it was.

 

[Dug]

The dents remind me of what it would look like if it were some sort of lead shot from an artillery round but the size is what puts me off on going that direction as all the lead rounds I have seen were .69 round ball size.

You never know someone may have had a chunk of lead and took a hammer to it.

Here is an example I dug out of a Union picket point, but much smaller. Probably a bored soldier.

 

[EnvoyToTheMolePeople]

Seems to me if it were rolling around in the river it would be smoother. I don' get it... It's a big honkin' chunk of metal whatever it was.

Yeah, you're probably right. I've found a lot of misc lead pieces at this bend in the river now that I think about it. Fishing sinkers, bullets, buckshot, a lid for a tin of baking flower, and now this. It's definitely odd.

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

I've been waiting to see if somebody else could correctly explain the LARGE "flats" (you could call them "facets") on EnvoyTTMP's lead find. DCMatt is correct, as usual... being rolled around on the bottom of a river (by strong current) naturally creates a rounded shape... like you see on ocean-surf pebbles. But instead, Envoy's lead object has large flat facets, looking very much like a natural Amandite Garnet crystal.

So, I'm happy to see somebody step up with "on the right track" information. Dug wrote:
> The dents remind me of what it would look like if it were some sort of lead shot from an artillery round but the size is what puts me off on going that direction as all the lead rounds I have seen were .69 round ball size.

The object in the photo posted by Dug (to show what he is talking about) is a scarce "compacted" lead case-shot (antipersonnel) ball from an exploded civil war 3" Hotchkiss Case-Shot shell. Sometimes, under rare circumstances, the thick iron "pusher plate" at the bottom of that type of shell's case-shot ball chamber would have the effect of "compacting" the entire group of lead balls, as if they were inside a trash-compacter. The result is what you see in Dug's photo... a lead ball which got so thoroughly compacted with the other balls inside a thick-walled chamber that it wound up looking like a Pomegranate kernel. (I've seen a few others, found on civil war battlefields. They were mysterious, until I finally saw a broken-open nose section of a 3" Hotchkiss Case-Shot, with the all compacted lead balls still inside it, again looking like a section of a torn-open Pomegranate.

One of the photos below shows some battlefield-dug compacted Hotchkiss case-shot balls.

But as Dug noted, EnvoyTTMP's compacted lead ball is a good bit larger than Dug's compacted lead Hotchkiss case-shot ball. I think the answer to the mystery is, Envoy's find is a compacted lead ball from a French-&-Indian War "Quilted Grapeshot." That type of artillery projectile is known to have sometimes contained lead balls instead of iron ones... and those lead balls ranged in diameter from 1 to 2-inches, depending on the caliber of the projectile.

 

[drumrun]

Cannonball Guy, your wealth of knowledge always amazes me.

 

[Dug]

I've been waiting to see if somebody else could correctly explain the LARGE "flats" (you could call them "facets" on EnvoyTTMP's lead find. DCMatt is correct, as usual... being rolled around on the bottom of a river (by strong current) naturally creates a rounded shape... like you see on ocean-surf pebbles. But instead, Envoy's lead object has large flat facets, looking very much like a natural Amandite Garnet crystal.

So, I'm happy to see somebody step up with "on the right track" information. Dug wwrote:
> The dents remind me of what it would look like if it were some sort of lead shot from an artillery round but the size is what puts me off on going that direction as all the lead rounds I have seen were .69 round ball size.

The object in the photo posted by Dug (to show what he is talking about) is a scarce "compacted" lead case-shot (antipersonnel) ball from an exploded civil war 3" Hotchkiss Case-Shot shell. Sometimes, under rare circumstances, the thick iron "pusher plate" at the bottom of that type of shell's case-shot ball chamber would have the effect of "compacting" the group of lead balls, as if they were inside a trash-compacter. The result is what you see in Dug's photo... a lead ball which got so thoroughly compacted with the other balls inside a thick-walled chamber that it wound up looking like a Pomegranate kernel. (I seen a few others, found on civil war battlefields. They were mysterious, until I finally saw a broken-open nose section of a 3" Hotchkiss Case-Shot, with the compacted lead balls still inside it, again looking like a section of a torn-open Pomegranate.

One of the photos below shows some battlefield-dug compacted Hotchkiss case-shot balls.

But as Dug noted, EnvoyTTMP's compacted lead ball is a good bit larger than Dug's compacted lead Hotchkiss case-shot ball. I think the answer to the mystery is, Envoy's find is a compacted lead ball from a French-&-Indian War "Quilted Grapeshot." That type of artillery projectile is known to have sometimes contained lead balls instead of iron ones... and those lead balls ranged in diameter from 1 to 2-inches, depending on the caliber of the projectile.

Thanks for straightening me out on what I had, all this time I thought it was just an odd shaped lead piece by a soldier. Even more fascinating now that it has been identified.

You just hit a twofer on one post! Thanks!

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

Drumrun wrote:
> Cannonball Guy, your wealth of knowledge always amazes me.

Thank you. Actually, it's not that I have a high IQ (I don't think I do)... it's just that I've been "paying close attention" during the 45-or-so years I've been digging and dealing in the Excavated Artifacts area. I assure y'all, anybody here can do that, if they care enough to.

 

[EnvoyToTheMolePeople]

I've been waiting to see if somebody else could correctly explain the LARGE "flats" (you could call them "facets") on EnvoyTTMP's lead find. DCMatt is correct, as usual... being rolled around on the bottom of a river (by strong current) naturally creates a rounded shape... like you see on ocean-surf pebbles. But instead, Envoy's lead object has large flat facets, looking very much like a natural Amandite Garnet crystal.

So, I'm happy to see somebody step up with "on the right track" information. Dug wrote:
> The dents remind me of what it would look like if it were some sort of lead shot from an artillery round but the size is what puts me off on going that direction as all the lead rounds I have seen were .69 round ball size.

The object in the photo posted by Dug (to show what he is talking about) is a scarce "compacted" lead case-shot (antipersonnel) ball from an exploded civil war 3" Hotchkiss Case-Shot shell. Sometimes, under rare circumstances, the thick iron "pusher plate" at the bottom of that type of shell's case-shot ball chamber would have the effect of "compacting" the entire group of lead balls, as if they were inside a trash-compacter. The result is what you see in Dug's photo... a lead ball which got so thoroughly compacted with the other balls inside a thick-walled chamber that it wound up looking like a Pomegranate kernel. (I've seen a few others, found on civil war battlefields. They were mysterious, until I finally saw a broken-open nose section of a 3" Hotchkiss Case-Shot, with the all compacted lead balls still inside it, again looking like a section of a torn-open Pomegranate.

One of the photos below shows some battlefield-dug compacted Hotchkiss case-shot balls.

But as Dug noted, EnvoyTTMP's compacted lead ball is a good bit larger than Dug's compacted lead Hotchkiss case-shot ball. I think the answer to the mystery is, Envoy's find is a compacted lead ball from a French-&-Indian War "Quilted Grapeshot." That type of artillery projectile is known to have sometimes contained lead balls instead of iron ones... and those lead balls ranged in diameter from 1 to 2-inches, depending on the caliber of the projectile.

You know, when I posted this thread, my number one hope was "I hope CannonballGuy sees this", and you have delivered as always. I'm going to have to investigate this further, because I'm sure where there is one piece of shot there are bound to be others.

 

[EnvoyToTheMolePeople]

I should also make an update, I just remembered that the national guard held several encampments in this town from the 1880s until the 1910s, is it possibly from one of them?

 

[Tpmetal]

I've been waiting to see if somebody else could correctly explain the LARGE "flats" (you could call them "facets") on EnvoyTTMP's lead find. DCMatt is correct, as usual... being rolled around on the bottom of a river (by strong current) naturally creates a rounded shape... like you see on ocean-surf pebbles. But instead, Envoy's lead object has large flat facets, looking very much like a natural Amandite Garnet crystal.

So, I'm happy to see somebody step up with "on the right track" information. Dug wrote:
> The dents remind me of what it would look like if it were some sort of lead shot from an artillery round but the size is what puts me off on going that direction as all the lead rounds I have seen were .69 round ball size.

The object in the photo posted by Dug (to show what he is talking about) is a scarce "compacted" lead case-shot (antipersonnel) ball from an exploded civil war 3" Hotchkiss Case-Shot shell. Sometimes, under rare circumstances, the thick iron "pusher plate" at the bottom of that type of shell's case-shot ball chamber would have the effect of "compacting" the entire group of lead balls, as if they were inside a trash-compacter. The result is what you see in Dug's photo... a lead ball which got so thoroughly compacted with the other balls inside a thick-walled chamber that it wound up looking like a Pomegranate kernel. (I've seen a few others, found on civil war battlefields. They were mysterious, until I finally saw a broken-open nose section of a 3" Hotchkiss Case-Shot, with the all compacted lead balls still inside it, again looking like a section of a torn-open Pomegranate.

One of the photos below shows some battlefield-dug compacted Hotchkiss case-shot balls.

But as Dug noted, EnvoyTTMP's compacted lead ball is a good bit larger than Dug's compacted lead Hotchkiss case-shot ball. I think the answer to the mystery is, Envoy's find is a compacted lead ball from a French-&-Indian War "Quilted Grapeshot." That type of artillery projectile is known to have sometimes contained lead balls instead of iron ones... and those lead balls ranged in diameter from 1 to 2-inches, depending on the caliber of the projectile.

you just confirmed a find i have had awhile from long island. From near an area where as I was told the french were slaughtered by the British which were stationed near by where they landed. The british met them on a field on top of the hill and killed pretty much all of them in am ambush as they came to the hill. I was told it was french Indian war . Well, I had found a large lead ball that was deformed on multiple side(not quite flat like these). I had always thought it was grapeshot, but everyone told me they never used lead. I found evidence that it was sometimes used and rare. And what you posted here confirmed it. Thanks!

 

[EnvoyToTheMolePeople]

you just confirmed a find i have had awhile from long island. From near an area where as I was told the french were slaughtered by the British which were stationed near by where they landed. The british met them on a field on top of the hill and killed pretty much all of them in am ambush as they came to the hill. I was told it was french Indian war . Well, I had found a large lead ball that was deformed on multiple side(not quite flat like these). I had always thought it was grapeshot, but everyone told me they never used lead. I found evidence that it was sometimes used and rare. And what you posted here confirmed it. Thanks!

That's pretty cool, care to post a pic?