Jacob Snively, Treasure, and Gold Rushes

[Highmountain]

Probably the single man in US history most involved and successful with gold finds, lost treasure and lost mines is Jacob Snively. Yet, he's probably also the least known.

Snively commanded troops at the Battle of San Jacinto, became the Secretary of the Army for the Texas Republic, [might have] accompanied the Texan-Santa Fe Expedition as a scout/spy, commanded the Snively Expedition looting Mexican commerce on the Santa Fe Trail in 1843, where his party encountered [eventually General] Crook and a party of US Army and were forced to surrender all their arms despite the fact they were on Mexican territory, rather than US.

In 1849, Snively left Texas and journeyed to California via the Gila Trail and found his element. He was among the first to find gold at Gila Bend and found the strike at Vulture Gulch, beginning that gold rush.

Later, he was one of 12 men who left Tucson in 1860 to journey east prospecting the upper Gila, where he and two others made the strike at Pinos Altos and began that Gold Rush. According to unofficial local tradition he commanded a company of Arizona Scouts to fight Apache when Hunter led Confederates to capture and occupy Tucson. No official records confirm this, and Carlton, when he was organizing the California Volunteers, warns the US Army commander at Yuma Crossing to keep close watch for 'Colonel Snively' whom he knows to be a spy.

Meanwhile, Snively vanishes, probably busy working the 'Lost Snively Diggings', returning to Pinos Altos with a mule loaded with 60 pounds of gold which he claimed to have panned in 10 days from a canyon with no bedrock and working an area the size of 'a wagon box, no deeper than three feet'.

In 1866, he returned to Texas for the 2nd Snively Expedition [treasure] to the upper-Colorado, which was a failure.

Snively was a surveyor/engineer by training, and he must have kept records and notes, but after he was killed by Apache in 1872 at Vulture Gulch, they've never emerged.

Somewhere, maybe a box in an attic, some family archive, there might still exist the mass of written material Snively almost certainly kept. If anyone ever finds it, a lot of unanswered questions might well come unravelled.

Jack

 

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[Springfield]

Probably the single man in US history most involved and successful with gold finds, lost treasure and lost mines is Jacob Snively. Yet, he's probably also the least known.

Snively commanded troops at the Battle of San Jacinto, became the Secretary of the Army for the Texas Republic, [might have] accompanied the Texan-Santa Fe Expedition as a scout/spy, commanded the Snively Expedition looting Mexican commerce on the Santa Fe Trail in 1843, where his party encountered [eventually General] Crook and a party of US Army and were forced to surrender all their arms despite the fact they were on Mexican territory, rather than US.

In 1849, Snively left Texas and journeyed to California via the Gila Trail and found his element. He was among the first to find gold at Gila Bend and found the strike at Vulture Gulch, beginning that gold rush.

Later, he was one of 12 men who left Tucson in 1860 to journey east prospecting the upper Gila, where he and two others made the strike at Pinos Altos and began that Gold Rush. According to unofficial local tradition he commanded a company of Arizona Scouts to fight Apache when Hunter led Confederates to capture and occupy Tucson. No official records confirm this, and Carlton, when he was organizing the California Volunteers, warns the US Army commander at Yuma Crossing to keep close watch for 'Colonel Snively' whom he knows to be a spy.

Meanwhile, Snively vanishes, probably busy working the 'Lost Snively Diggings', returning to Pinos Altos with a mule loaded with 60 pounds of gold which he claimed to have panned in 10 days from a canyon with no bedrock and working an area the size of 'a wagon box, no deeper than three feet'.

In 1866, he returned to Texas for the 2nd Snively Expedition [treasure] to the upper-Colorado, which was a failure.

Snively was a surveyor/engineer by training, and he must have kept records and notes, but after he was killed by Apache in 1872 at Vulture Gulch, they've never emerged.

Somewhere, maybe a box in an attic, some family archive, there might still exist the mass of written material Snively almost certainly kept. If anyone ever finds it, a lot of unanswered questions might well come unravelled.

Jack

Always been fascinated with Snively. Jason Baxter was another.

 

[Highmountain]

Probably the single man in US history most involved and successful with gold finds, lost treasure and lost mines is Jacob Snively. Yet, he's probably also the least known.

Snively commanded troops at the Battle of San Jacinto, became the Secretary of the Army for the Texas Republic, [might have] accompanied the Texan-Santa Fe Expedition as a scout/spy, commanded the Snively Expedition looting Mexican commerce on the Santa Fe Trail in 1843, where his party encountered [eventually General] Crook and a party of US Army and were forced to surrender all their arms despite the fact they were on Mexican territory, rather than US.

In 1849, Snively left Texas and journeyed to California via the Gila Trail and found his element. He was among the first to find gold at Gila Bend and found the strike at Vulture Gulch, beginning that gold rush.

Later, he was one of 12 men who left Tucson in 1860 to journey east prospecting the upper Gila, where he and two others made the strike at Pinos Altos and began that Gold Rush. According to unofficial local tradition he commanded a company of Arizona Scouts to fight Apache when Hunter led Confederates to capture and occupy Tucson. No official records confirm this, and Carlton, when he was organizing the California Volunteers, warns the US Army commander at Yuma Crossing to keep close watch for 'Colonel Snively' whom he knows to be a spy.

Meanwhile, Snively vanishes, probably busy working the 'Lost Snively Diggings', returning to Pinos Altos with a mule loaded with 60 pounds of gold which he claimed to have panned in 10 days from a canyon with no bedrock and working an area the size of 'a wagon box, no deeper than three feet'.

In 1866, he returned to Texas for the 2nd Snively Expedition [treasure] to the upper-Colorado, which was a failure.

Snively was a surveyor/engineer by training, and he must have kept records and notes, but after he was killed by Apache in 1872 at Vulture Gulch, they've never emerged.

Somewhere, maybe a box in an attic, some family archive, there might still exist the mass of written material Snively almost certainly kept. If anyone ever finds it, a lot of unanswered questions might well come unravelled.

Jack

Always been fascinated with Snively. Jason Baxter was another.

Yeah, Baxter's a mystery. A friend of mine located his grave in the Gila, but I've tried backtracking him... said he fought with Quantrill or Bloody Bill Anderson in the Civil War.... couldn't find any traces of him despite a lot of time spent searching. I suspect he picked up a different name somewhere along the trail to Pinos.

But he also said he 'knew Adams' in Tucson before the party disaster, and knew Snively early-on. I've never found the names of the 12 in the Hunter debacle from Tucson who arrived back at the Rio Grande August 12, but I'm inclined to think Baxter might have been among them, went with Hunter to Texas, and eventually ended up in the Quantrill troubles.

A friend of mine found a long-forgotten picture of him and McKenna decked out in mountain-man duds that gives a person a fine opportunity for studying the look of the man. Interesting hombre.

Jack Swilling's another. The pic below from the AZ archives is enough to tell so much about him a person wouldn't want to know more straight-on, but to know a lot more from a distance. That slit on his hat looks as though it might have come out of an Apache get-together, the eyes say he's nobody to cross, and the Apache side-kick beside him ain't showing enough fire-power.

Sometimes makes me think I was born too late.

Thanks for the reply
Jack

 

[Springfield]

Yeah, Baxter's a mystery. A friend of mine located his grave in the Gila, but I've tried backtracking him... said he fought with Quantrill or Bloody Bill Anderson in the Civil War.... couldn't find any traces of him despite a lot of time spent searching. I suspect he picked up a different name somewhere along the trail to Pinos.

But he also said he 'knew Adams' in Tucson before the party disaster, and knew Snively early-on. I've never found the names of the 12 in the Hunter debacle from Tucson who arrived back at the Rio Grande August 12, but I'm inclined to think Baxter might have been among them, went with Hunter to Texas, and eventually ended up in the Quantrill troubles.

A friend of mine found a long-forgotten picture of him and McKenna decked out in mountain-man duds that gives a person a fine opportunity for studying the look of the man. Interesting hombre.

Jack Swilling's another. The pic from the AZ archives is enough to tell so much about him a person wouldn't want to know more straight-on, but to know a lot more from a distance. That slit on his hat looks as though it might have come out of an Apache get-together, the eyes say he's nobody to cross, and the Apache side-kick beside him ain't showing enough fire-power.

Sometimes makes me think I was born too late.

Thanks for the reply
Jack

A lot of us were. Ever hear anything about Jesse James' (yes, that one) activities in Hillsboro and Silver City in the 1870's? Ross C., an old friend of mine originally from the Clovis area and a lifelong TH-er, whose daddy just happened to have John Trammel as a houseguest when Ross was a boy, had some good info about JJ using the old Southern Hotel in Silver as his headquarters. Unfortunately, Ross died a couple years ago and all his notes became unavailable. Snively, Baxter, Adams, Hearst, all the old Confederates from Texas, James, the Daltons, lots of other players - all associated with the 'KGC' and all active in these parts. If you haven't begun looking into these theories, you may wish to skip out because once the bulb lights up, you'll be sorry you didn't start earlier. Sometimes I wish I could believe the history books.

 

[Highmountain]

Hadn't ever come across the Jesse James story for SW New Mexico. A while back I came across an account he was in Las Vegas once and ended up spending some time talking with Billy [yeah that one] the Kid... didn't have much use for him, though young Bill wanted to set up something between them. JJ figured he had enough trouble in his life and wild, reckless crazymen. [Jesse James was my Neighbor might have been the book]. But William French in Reflections of a Western Ranchman, 1880ish tells of having hired the Butch and Sundance lot to work for him out toward Luna without knowing he'd done it. [Also gives an eyewitness account of Alfego Baca's 'Texas War' that's worth reading].

I've never gotten into KGC, though I know a lot of folk who are and whom I respect. Just a matter of time I'd imagine, provided I live enough days and can't go outside.

Thanks for the JJ info. Gonna have to dig a bit on that, I thinks.

Gracias,
Jack

 

[Highmountain]

A couple of links to Jesse James in New Mexico...

Couldn't find reference to KGC connections but haven't 'deep searched' for it yet.

Jack

Billy the Kid and Jesse James
http://www.angelfire.com/mi2/billythekid/jesse.html
http://snipurl.com/28wo7 [www_angelfire_com]



http://www.wildwestweb.net/jesseincal.html
http://snipurl.com/28wo9 [www_wildwestweb_net]

 

[Springfield]

A couple of links to Jesse James in New Mexico...

Couldn't find reference to KGC connections but haven't 'deep searched' for it yet.

Jack

Billy the Kid and Jesse James
http://www.angelfire.com/mi2/billythekid/jesse.html
http://snipurl.com/28wo7 [www_angelfire_com]



http://www.wildwestweb.net/jesseincal.html
http://snipurl.com/28wo9 [www_wildwestweb_net]

How do you like this one?

 

[Highmountain]

A couple of links to Jesse James in New Mexico...

Couldn't find reference to KGC connections but haven't 'deep searched' for it yet.

Jack

Billy the Kid and Jesse James
http://www.angelfire.com/mi2/billythekid/jesse.html
http://snipurl.com/28wo7 [www_angelfire_com]



http://www.wildwestweb.net/jesseincal.html
http://snipurl.com/28wo9 [www_wildwestweb_net]

How do you like this one?

Can't offer much comment on that, but here's something to compare:

[Edit: one of Cole's outstanding features was the size of his hands. Enormous hands. Most of the Youngers did. Any photo of a Younger I've ever seen where the hands were visible it stands out - But for what it's worth, the fancy-man in the bottom of the group prison pic definitely ain't Bob or James.]

 

[Highmountain]

However, getting back to Jacob Snively and his doings.

Snively was among a group of others at Vulture Gulch when they were attacked. Snively was hit in the shoulder and fell from his horse but his compadres ran away and left him for the Apache. His other limbs were broken and he evidently took a long while dying.

[Snively had encountered a similar situation in Texas 1866 with the Comanche, but instead of running and leaving their companion he shot all the horses, formed a small fortress with the carcasses and fought off the Comanche. He was vilified afterward by his companions for killing those horses, among other things they didn't approve of]

A few days later a group came back and buried what was left of him in a shallow grave on-site.

Seven years later Jack Swilling, his long-time friend, came back and exhumed his remains, carried them back to Gillette, Arizona and re-buried them. But while he was gone getting Snively, a stagecoach was robbed and Swilling was accused of doing it. He was arrested and spent the remainder of his life in prison awaiting trial. Contracted pneamonia and kicked.

Fortunately, he was found posthumously to be innocent of the fabricated charges.

 

[Springfield]

... Fortunately, he was found posthumously to be innocent of the fabricated charges.

Fortunate for whom?

 

[Highmountain]

... Fortunately, he was found posthumously to be innocent of the fabricated charges.

Fortunate for whom?

Just my own brand of humor. Doesn't get many laughs.

Jack

 

[Highmountain]

Snively's near-war incident between the United States and the Republic of Texas, 1843 - First-hand accounts by participants in the Snively Expedition


Southwestern Historical Quarterly Online
University of Texas Press

http://www.tshaonline.org/shqonline/apager.php?vol=070&pag=079
http://snipurl.com/2926x [www_tshaonline_org]

Other good articles same TSHA issue:
http://www.tshaonline.org/shqonline/070toc.html


Another account of the Snively Expedition to the Arkansas River
http://www.1stnmvi.com/NMV_Chapter1.htm
http://snipurl.com/292f3 [www_1stnmvi_com]


Edit- Here are some possibilities a person searching for the lost and forgotten Jacob Snively papers might consider:
The Pennsylvania Snivelys

Where Jacob Snively's papers might be stored in family records:


http://www.pacivilwar.com/bios/snively_isaac.php
http://snipurl.com/292g0 [www_pacivilwar_com]

http://midatlantic.rootsweb.ancestry.com/database/d0058/g0000009.htm
http://snipurl.com/292fw [midatlantic_rootsweb_ancestry_com]

http://home.neo.rr.com/belknapinc/fam038.html
http://snipurl.com/292fr [home_neo_rr_com]


http://home.neo.rr.com/belknapinc/fam037.html
http://snipurl.com/292fp [home_neo_rr_com]

Website concerning Latter Day Saint Founder Joseph Smith webmaster - Vance Snively

http://restorationbookstore.org/articles/nopoligamy/jsfp-visionarticles/joseph1843struggle.htm
http://snipurl.com/292fm [restorationbookstore_org]


Susan [Snively] Young - second wife of Brigham Young

http://www.cc.utah.edu/~jay/Brigham_Young/Brigham_Young.html
http://snipurl.com/292fg [www_cc_utah_edu]

http://demo.familytreeguide.com/showphoto.php?photoID=34&PHPSESSID=41b6e68244f7effb1bcb3c2eee6cbd38
http://snipurl.com/292fc [demo_familytreeguide_com]

http://demo.familytreeguide.com/getperson.php?personID=I15000&tree=Partridge
http://snipurl.com/292fb [demo_familytreeguide_com]

http://contentdm.lib.byu.edu/cdm4/browse.php?CISOROOT=/Savage2&CISOSORT=title|r&CISOSTART=1,81
http://snipurl.com/292f6 [contentdm_lib_byu_edu]

Various other Snively links:

Swilling Cemetery
Black Canyon City, Arizona

The two graves here are of Colonel Jacob Snively, born 1809 and died in 1871, and of Matilda Swilling, born 1867 and died October 19, 1875.

http://n.j.dushane.home.comcast.net/~n.j.dushane/swilling/swilling.htm
http://snipurl.com/293ek [n_j_dushane_home_comcast_net]


History of Yuma and the Territorial Prison
Tells the account of Snively's first gold strike

http://www.lookoutnow.com/woz/yuma.htm
http://snipurl.com/293en [www_lookoutnow_com]

Arizona Mining Association credits Snively as making the first major gold strike in Arizona
http://www.azcu.org/publicationsHistory3.php
http://snipurl.com/293eo [www_azcu_org]

Hunter, Snively, Tevis, Ewell etc
http://members.tripod.com/~azrebel/page23.html
http://snipurl.com/293ep [members_tripod_com]

THE HISTORY OF LA PAZ & EHRENBERG
http://www.azoutback.com/ehrenbergH.htm
http://snipurl.com/293er [www_azoutback_com]

Jack Swilling Biography
http://www.amazon.com/Tragic-Jack-Arizona-Pioneer-Swilling/dp/0966592522?tag=dogpile-20
http://snipurl.com/293eu [www_amazon_com]

 

[Highmountain]

Yeah, Baxter's a mystery. A friend of mine located his grave in the Gila, but I've tried backtracking him... said he fought with Quantrill or Bloody Bill Anderson in the Civil War.... couldn't find any traces of him despite a lot of time spent searching. I suspect he picked up a different name somewhere along the trail to Pinos.

But he also said he 'knew Adams' in Tucson before the party disaster, and knew Snively early-on. I've never found the names of the 12 in the Hunter debacle from Tucson who arrived back at the Rio Grande August 12, but I'm inclined to think Baxter might have been among them, went with Hunter to Texas, and eventually ended up in the Quantrill troubles.

A friend of mine found a long-forgotten picture of him and McKenna decked out in mountain-man duds that gives a person a fine opportunity for studying the look of the man. Interesting hombre.

Jack Swilling's another. The pic from the AZ archives is enough to tell so much about him a person wouldn't want to know more straight-on, but to know a lot more from a distance. That slit on his hat looks as though it might have come out of an Apache get-together, the eyes say he's nobody to cross, and the Apache side-kick beside him ain't showing enough fire-power.

Sometimes makes me think I was born too late.

Thanks for the reply
Jack

A lot of us were. Ever hear anything about Jesse James' (yes, that one) activities in Hillsboro and Silver City in the 1870's? Ross C., an old friend of mine originally from the Clovis area and a lifelong TH-er, whose daddy just happened to have John Trammel as a houseguest when Ross was a boy, had some good info about JJ using the old Southern Hotel in Silver as his headquarters. Unfortunately, Ross died a couple years ago and all his notes became unavailable. Snively, Baxter, Adams, Hearst, all the old Confederates from Texas, James, the Daltons, lots of other players - all associated with the 'KGC' and all active in these parts. If you haven't begun looking into these theories, you may wish to skip out because once the bulb lights up, you'll be sorry you didn't start earlier. Sometimes I wish I could believe the history books.

Springfield: Interesting thoughts and implications.

Maybe unrelated, or maybe not. A few years ago I was researching something in the microfilm archives of the Deming Headlight Newspaper from the early 20th Century. Almost every issue had old timers and pioneers from the area anecdoting accounts of the early times events and memories. [That's how Black Range Tales was first published - Installments while Uncle Jimmy was in the Tuberculosis Sanitarium in Deming.]

But I came across an account from a man who'd been a youngster in the late-1860s-early-1870s who told an interesting story. Said a group of Mesilla/Pinos Altos Confederate Volunteers got together at his family ranch sometime in the late 1860s, including a lot of names you'd recognize. Jack Swilling and 'Colonel Snively' were among them. Everyone stayed for three days having themselves a hundred huddles and confabs.

But he said during that time he must have heard this song a hundred times:

The Good Old Rebel

I am a good old rebel, that is just what I am
For this fair land of freedom I do not care a damn
I'm glad I fought against it but I only wished I'd won
And I don't want a pardon for anything I've done

I hate the constitution, this great republic too
I hate the Freedman's Bureau in uniforms so blue
I hate the nasty eagle with all the brag and fuss
And the lying, thieving Yankees, I hate 'em worse and worse

I hate the Yankee nation and everything they do
I hate the Declaration of Independence too
I hate the glorious Union, 'tis dripping with our blood
And I hate their Yankee banner and I fought it all I could

I followed old Marse Robert for four year near about
Got wounded in three place and starved at Point Lookout
I caught the rheumatism a-campin' in the snow
But I caught a choice of Yankees and I wish I'd caught some more

Three hundred thousand Yankees lie stiff in Southern dust
We got three hundred thousand before they conquered us
They died of Southern fever, Southern steel and shot
And I wish it was three million instead of what we got

I can't take up my musket and fight 'em now no more
But I ain't goin' to love 'em now that's certain sure
And I don't want no pardon for what I was and am
And I won't be reconstructed and I don't give a damn

The Headlight piece had several more stanzas I've never found anywhere since though I didn't know at the time they were unusual. I took these lyrics off the Internet. I thought at the time I'd make a copy of the article before I left Deming, but I was working on another project and it slipped my mind and I've never gotten around to going back in there and blinding myself squinting at a microfilm reader trying to find it again.

Jack

 

[Springfield]

Quite a poem - no forgiveness from those quarters. It's my understanding the Civil War had more to do with high-level money lending and control of the US economy than it did about states' rights, slavery, etc. The financing issue is what got Lincoln capped at the end, not to mention 600,000 worth of Blue and Grey cannon fodder along the way. War pays well for those who lend money to combatents to buy supplies, especially if you can lend to both sides. It's always about the money.

 

[Highmountain]

Quite a poem - no forgiveness from those quarters. It's my understanding the Civil War had more to do with high-level money lending and control of the US economy than it did about states' rights, slavery, etc. The financing issue is what got Lincoln capped at the end, not to mention 600,000 worth of Blue and Grey cannon fodder along the way. War pays well for those who lend money to combatents to buy supplies, especially if you can lend to both sides. It's always about the money.

Yep. But the winners write the history books. Ask any school kid why that war was fought, what Lincoln's motives were, whether Lincoln could have avoided Fort Sumpter, whether Lincoln was a man to be admired, and you'll get a story that doesn't have much to do with truth but can tell you a lot about the way 'historoid' comes down to us. Got ourselves a historectomy on the Civil War, we did.

To the victor go the spoils.

Jack

 

[Springfield]

... To the victor go the spoils.

Jack

And the victor might well be the financial district at City of London before it's all over. Meet the new boss - same as the old boss.

 

[Highmountain]

... To the victor go the spoils.

Jack

And the victor might well be the financial district at City of London before it's all over. Meet the new boss - same as the old boss.

Springfield: At the risk of asking a stupid question because I'm 100% ignorant about the subject, do you think Snively, Swilling and a lot of those Pinos Altos and Mesilla volunteers were KGC? Baxter? The 1860 group of 12 that came from Tucson to make the Pinos Altos strike?

I'll confess to not having done my homework on this side of things, don't actually have a clue what the KGC represents to those who see it as something larger and more sustaining than a bunch of men who had [I suspect] courage and ideals that had become anachronistic during the reconstruction years and more-so afterward.

Mind me asking? Is this an appropriate place to do it?

Jack

 

[Springfield]

Springfield: At the risk of asking a stupid question because I'm 100% ignorant about the subject, do you think Snively, Swilling and a lot of those Pinos Altos and Mesilla volunteers were KGC? Baxter? The 1860 group of 12 that came from Tucson to make the Pinos Altos strike?

I'll confess to not having done my homework on this side of things, don't actually have a clue what the KGC represents to those who see it as something larger and more sustaining than a bunch of men who had [I suspect] courage and ideals that had become anachronistic during the reconstruction years and more-so afterward.

Mind me asking? Is this an appropriate place to do it?

Jack

I wouldn't be at all surprised about these early SW movers/shakers. The more I consider the possibility, the more sense it makes.

This subject is controversial to say the least, mainly because of the unbelievably complex conspiracy underlying an equally unbelievable series of accomplishments attributed to the group. The logical starting place here is Bob Brewer's book, http://www.amazon.com/Shadow-Sentin...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1211204957&sr=1-1. The book and Brewer himself are just as controversial as the topic. He used to post on TNet forum in the '90's and I contacted him re a project of mine then. He was gracious and helpful, sending me a copy of his first self-published book. I couldn't swallow his theories at that time because they seemed to turn history too much upside down for my comfort level.

As time passed, I became aquainted with Brewer's right-hand man and learned a lot more about the subject, which brooches far more than the well-known 'South-shall-rise-again' rebel group that carries the 'KGC' tag and allegedly disbanded ca 1916. Brewer is currently writing what is promised to be a second 'tell-all' book to surpass the one referenced above, supposedly a book that will become his legacy. The actual writer of this book, Brewer's other right-hand man for the past several years, is a good friend of mine and is the reason that I continue to consider this topic as one with merit. I say this because of the things that have been shown and explained to me - incredible things. Having said this, I still have some grave doubts, but the evidence is in the field and the associations are there for those who wish to look. The research time necessary to come up to speed on this topic is prohibitive and tends to discourged those who are curious. I find myself somewhat in the same boat. One needs to provide himself with a world-class liberal education covering subjects including history, religion, psychology, mathematics, geography, art, cartography, agronomy, surveying and many others. If I didn't have a relationship with a generous 'insider' of sorts, I'd be far more skeptical than I am. My problem remains accepting the ability for so many to keep such secrets.

Back to the PA/Mesilla boys. Any rebels who came out of post CW Texas are probables. The Mormons are in it up to their eyeballs too. Place names are extremely important. Most 'lost mines and Spanish treasure' stories are coded messages (the writers themselves is an interesting topic by itself). Even our beloved 'Lost Adams Diggings' is allegedly something far different than what so many have believed for so long. It's easy and more comfortable to write this all off as nonsense, but IMHO things in general are seldom as they seem. We tend to believe the book answers in life, especially if everyone else does.

Am I encouraging you to immerse yourself in this? No, not really, because I can't vouch for the truth of the subject. Besides, whether any of it is true or not depends not on my belief, yours, or anyone else's, for that matter. The topic provides a unified theory of history manipulated by a bunch of people far more organized and capable than we have come to expect from leaders of the day. In the end, the unanswered 'KGC" question keeps coming back to the matter of motivation - "Why?". Hopefully, Brewer's new book will shed some light on this.

 

[Highmountain]

Springfield: At the risk of asking a stupid question because I'm 100% ignorant about the subject, do you think Snively, Swilling and a lot of those Pinos Altos and Mesilla volunteers were KGC? Baxter? The 1860 group of 12 that came from Tucson to make the Pinos Altos strike?

I'll confess to not having done my homework on this side of things, don't actually have a clue what the KGC represents to those who see it as something larger and more sustaining than a bunch of men who had [I suspect] courage and ideals that had become anachronistic during the reconstruction years and more-so afterward.

Mind me asking? Is this an appropriate place to do it?

Jack

I wouldn't be at all surprised about these early SW movers/shakers. The more I consider the possibility, the more sense it makes.

This subject is controversial to say the least, mainly because of the unbelievably complex conspiracy underlying an equally unbelievable series of accomplishments attributed to the group. The logical starting place here is Bob Brewer's book, http://www.amazon.com/Shadow-Sentin...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1211204957&sr=1-1. The book and Brewer himself are just as controversial as the topic. He used to post on TNet forum in the '90's and I contacted him re a project of mine then. He was gracious and helpful, sending me a copy of his first self-published book. I couldn't swallow his theories at that time because they seemed to turn history too much upside down for my comfort level.

As time passed, I became aquainted with Brewer's right-hand man and learned a lot more about the subject, which brooches far more than the well-known 'South-shall-rise-again' rebel group that carries the 'KGC' tag and allegedly disbanded ca 1916. Brewer is currently writing what is promised to be a second 'tell-all' book to surpass the one referenced above, supposedly a book that will become his legacy. The actual writer of this book, Brewer's other right-hand man for the past several years, is a good friend of mine and is the reason that I continue to consider this topic as one with merit. I say this because of the things that have been shown and explained to me - incredible things. Having said this, I still have some grave doubts, but the evidence is in the field and the associations are there for those who wish to look. The research time necessary to come up to speed on this topic is prohibitive and tends to discourged those who are curious. I find myself somewhat in the same boat. One needs to provide himself with a world-class liberal education covering subjects including history, religion, psychology, mathematics, geography, art, cartography, agronomy, surveying and many others. If I didn't have a relationship with a generous 'insider' of sorts, I'd be far more skeptical than I am. My problem remains accepting the ability for so many to keep such secrets.

Back to the PA/Mesilla boys. Any rebels who came out of post CW Texas are probables. The Mormons are in it up to their eyeballs too. Place names are extremely important. Most 'lost mines and Spanish treasure' stories are coded messages (the writers themselves is an interesting topic by itself). Even our beloved 'Lost Adams Diggings' is allegedly something far different than what so many have believed for so long. It's easy and more comfortable to write this all off as nonsense, but IMHO things in general are seldom as they seem. We tend to believe the book answers in life, especially if everyone else does.

Am I encouraging you to immerse yourself in this? No, not really, because I can't vouch for the truth of the subject. Besides, whether any of it is true or not depends not on my belief, yours, or anyone else's, for that matter. The topic provides a unified theory of history manipulated by a bunch of people far more organized and capable than we have come to expect from leaders of the day. In the end, the unanswered 'KGC" question keeps coming back to the matter of motivation - "Why?". Hopefully, Brewer's new book will shed some light on this.

Springfield: Thanks for the detailed explanation. If my life becomes less complicated in the fall I'll buy Brewer's book and see if I can get addicted to something unexpected. Quite honestly, the coincidence of name [Brewer] is enough to arouse a lot of curiosity in me. I've chased more Brewers through history and generations, particularly 1855-1925, than I care to ennumerate or even think about. Along with Tenneys, Tinneys, etc. And ain't even sure I got them all.

I will say with what I believe is a middling level of certainty that most of the Pinos/Mesilla recruits hadn't come directly from Texas recently, though many had either come from there earlier or spent some time there previously. And I can say with equal certainty that the group Sherrod Hunter commanded at Tucson was comprised almost entirely of Mesilla/Pinos Altos recruits.

Probably unrelated, but a Tenney was one of the Mesilla volunteers on the Baylor roster that made it back to Texas and survived.

As for the Mormon side, I can't say I'm surprised. The further a person digs into the goings on outside Utah from 1850ish until about 1930ish the more mysterious it becomes.

Thanks again for all the info.

Jack

 

[Gork]

Probably the single man in US history most involved and successful with gold finds, lost treasure and lost mines is Jacob Snively. Yet, he's probably also the least known.

Snively commanded troops at the Battle of San Jacinto, became the Secretary of the Army for the Texas Republic, [might have] accompanied the Texan-Santa Fe Expedition as a scout/spy, commanded the Snively Expedition looting Mexican commerce on the Santa Fe Trail in 1843, where his party encountered [eventually General] Crook and a party of US Army and were forced to surrender all their arms despite the fact they were on Mexican territory, rather than US.

In 1849, Snively left Texas and journeyed to California via the Gila Trail and found his element. He was among the first to find gold at Gila Bend and found the strike at Vulture Gulch, beginning that gold rush.

Later, he was one of 12 men who left Tucson in 1860 to journey east prospecting the upper Gila, where he and two others made the strike at Pinos Altos and began that Gold Rush. According to unofficial local tradition he commanded a company of Arizona Scouts to fight Apache when Hunter led Confederates to capture and occupy Tucson. No official records confirm this, and Carlton, when he was organizing the California Volunteers, warns the US Army commander at Yuma Crossing to keep close watch for 'Colonel Snively' whom he knows to be a spy.

Meanwhile, Snively vanishes, probably busy working the 'Lost Snively Diggings', returning to Pinos Altos with a mule loaded with 60 pounds of gold which he claimed to have panned in 10 days from a canyon with no bedrock and working an area the size of 'a wagon box, no deeper than three feet'.

In 1866, he returned to Texas for the 2nd Snively Expedition [treasure] to the upper-Colorado, which was a failure.

Snively was a surveyor/engineer by training, and he must have kept records and notes, but after he was killed by Apache in 1872 at Vulture Gulch, they've never emerged.

Somewhere, maybe a box in an attic, some family archive, there might still exist the mass of written material Snively almost certainly kept. If anyone ever finds it, a lot of unanswered questions might well come unravelled.

Jack

Jacob Snively found gold at Monitor Gulch near what became Gila City-not Gila Bend. He was the owner of Snively's Stage Station for Butterfield here in November 1858 when he discovered the gold. This was the first placer gold rush in Arizona. Gila City was about twenty miles from the ferry on the Colorado River.