It *Looks* like a belt plate tongue...

[BuckleBoy]

But is it?

That was my first thought when finding this item today, but after cleaning I realized that the eagle is a separate piece attached to the backing. The whole thing just looks too flimsy to me to be the tongue piece for a two-piece buckle. Is it a bridle rosette with the lead backing melted out?

Help.

I'd love to hear any more information anyone else can come up with about this find.


Best Wishes,


Buckles

 

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[Montana Jim]

I thought the (two piece buckle) belt tongues were molded... this looks, more likely I think, like a less sturdy piece... are the tabs heavy-duty?

Welcome back

 

[BuckleBoy]

Thanks, my friend.  


The tabs actually appear to be sturdier than the backing piece itself is.  And of course, the whole thing is stamped rather than cast...

I guess I could call it a patriotic-themed civilian sash buckle tongue and call it done...but I was wondering if it might be something else?  



-Buckles

 

[Montana Jim]

Eagle holding flag... not military.

Neat item either way...

 

[nova treasure]

I am not for sure what it's from,but i know that would be a Very Nice piece to dig with the Eagle and Flag,Congrats.

I would think it would be part of a lead back rosette,being it's flimsy with the stronger tabs?

Congrats on the Find,
Bill

 

[RPG]

Welcome back BuckleBoy. We've missed your posts here.
Looks like the eagle and the main piece are two seperate pieces that were put together because the imprint of the eagle does not show on the back. How many stars are on the flag?
Randy

 

[seger98]

I haven't a clue but it's a neat find none the less!

 

[CRUSADER]

We've missed your posts here.

I haven't

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Welcome back BuckleBoy. We've missed your posts here.
Looks like the eagle and the main piece are two seperate pieces that were put together because the imprint of the eagle does not show on the back. How many stars are on the flag?
Randy

Welcome back. Could it be a 15 star flag when Kentucky joined the Union in 1795?...or 13?

http://www.ushistory.org/Betsy/flagpics.html

 

[Ohio Jerry]

Not sure what it is BB but it's WAY cool. I'm also curious about the number of stars on the flag as that would give you a good idea on it's age,
Jerry

 

[BuckleBoy]

Welcome back BuckleBoy. We've missed your posts here.
Looks like the eagle and the main piece are two seperate pieces that were put together because the imprint of the eagle does not show on the back. How many stars are on the flag?
Randy

Welcome back. Could it be a 15 star flag when Kentucky joined the Union in 1795?
...or 13?

http://www.ushistory.org/Betsy/flagpics.html

Thank you all for the kind words.


There are 13 stars on the flag, but they are arranged in three rows: 4 on the first two rows and 5 on the third row. But it is obvious by this inaccurate alignment of the stars that little attention was paid to this detail in the design. Perhaps it was simply important that the flag had 13 stars as a patriotic design, but not important enough for the design to be accurate. So I don't know if the number of stars tells us much, in other words.

 

[Don in SJ]

Very nice relic, definitely patriotic and not military but I am sure I have seen that type of relic before, if you smell something burnin, you know I am really thinking hard, but so far, just burnt toast, no answers.

The 13 stars does not help date it at all, since 13 starred items were used throughout our history, but perhaps you can match the design of the eagle with a button or coin for a rough date, could be as early as War of 1812 or as late as the 1860 time frame but I would lean more to an earlier time frame.

Don

 

[BuckleBoy]

Very nice relic, definitely patriotic and not military but I am sure I have seen that type of relic before, if you smell something burnin, you know I am really thinking hard, but so far, just burnt toast, no answers.

The 13 stars does not help date it at all, since 13 starred items were used throughout our history, but perhaps you can match the design of the eagle with a button or coin for a rough date, could be as early as War of 1812 or as late as the 1860 time frame but I would lean more to an earlier time frame.

Don

Thank you, Don. A lot of my whatzit threads seem to end up being burnt toast topics. As you know, I try to only post somthing when I am absolutely clueless after trying every resource I have. I will look at Tice for a few hours trying to match the eagle tonight.

Someone asked earlier if the eagle was a separate piece on the item, and it is indeed a separate piece.

Looks like this one will get logged as a "patriotic, pre-Civil War Eagle Whatzit" unless I find more pieces of it at the site.


Best Wishes,


Buckles

 

[kuger]

I have not seen that design on any buckles,nor can I find it in any book.I have seen similar though.I am not on my computer or I would post a picture of a Tongue and Wreath buckle my friend has that is very similar.Remember all Tongue and Wreath buckles were not cast,some were stamped brass.Many of the Militia buckles also have thirteen stars....why I dont know?Nice find

 

[aa battery]

welcome to tnet

 

[BuckleBoy]

I have not seen that design on any buckles,nor can I find it in any book.I have seen similar though.I am not on my computer or I would post a picture of a Tongue and Wreath buckle my friend has that is very similar.Remember all Tongue and Wreath buckles were not cast,some were stamped brass.Many of the Militia buckles also have thirteen stars....why I dont know?Nice find

Thank you for your reply. I look forward to seeing a photo of a similar example, if you wouldn't mind posting it.


You have found a great many of the type (and time frame) of buckle which I thought this piece might be. So I value your input and ideas here.



Best Wishes,



Buckles.




aa--thanks for the welcome. I'll be up to 100 posts soon.

 

[RPG]

There are 13 stars on the flag, but they are arranged in three rows: 4 on the first two rows and 5 on the third row. But it is obvious by this inaccurate alignment of the stars that little attention was paid to this detail in the design. Perhaps it was simply important that the flag had 13 stars as a patriotic design, but not important enough for the design to be accurate. So I don't know if the number of stars tells us much, in other words.
[/quote]
Or could the three rows of stars represent the flag that flew at Guilford courthouse? I think this item is very old. Looks like the eagle is standing on wood and the only ones I have seen like that are 18th century. INA (insurance company of North America) used similar eagles standing on wood.
Randy

 

[Don in SJ]

Looking at the eagle, I believe it is close to the styles(wing shape/position and type of head and position) used on military buttons starting in 1820, so I would concentrate on the 1820-1850 era for the answer. Of course this has not shield, and no number so still think more of a patriotic item, again, I would not put much into the stars on the flag but then again who knows. I do know I have seen something similar before and dang if I can remember or find it.

 

[kuger]

I have not seen that design on any buckles,nor can I find it in any book.I have seen similar though.I am not on my computer or I would post a picture of a Tongue and Wreath buckle my friend has that is very similar.Remember all Tongue and Wreath buckles were not cast,some were stamped brass.Many of the Militia buckles also have thirteen stars....why I dont know?Nice find

Thank you for your reply. I look forward to seeing a photo of a similar example, if you wouldn't mind posting it.


You have found a great many of the type (and time frame) of buckle which I thought this piece might be. So I value your input and ideas here.



Best Wishes,



Buckles.




aa--thanks for the welcome. I'll be up to 100 posts soon.

Thanks,I am currently in Hawaii,but when I get home I will shoot ya a pic of the buckle I am thinking of.It is 1850,possibly earlier,is cast,rectangular and quite large.I definitely agree it is pre 1855.

 

[BuckleBoy]

Thank you again kuger, Dong, RPG.